Connect and Conquer
Connect and Conquer
2DT - Dealing with Exhaustion as a Mother and a Boxer

[00:00:00] Kyle Jetsel: So what are we talking about 

[00:00:01] Cameron Watson: today? We’re talking about exhaustion.

[00:00:03] Cameron Watson: Love 

[00:00:04] Kyle Jetsel: it. 

[00:00:04] Cameron Watson: Yeah, I’ve got some of my wife who she, uh, like everybody, she gets to the end of where she thinks she’s, she’s done and she has no more energy and then she keeps going and you know, that’s, that’s what we do. But I was thinking maybe we could share some stories about how you’ve learned. to overcome exhaustion and what you do.

[00:00:28] Kyle Jetsel: Uh, it’s interesting you said, the way you phrased that, you said, she gets to the point where she thinks she doesn’t have any more energy and she keeps going. Okay, this reminds me, so, my wife and I, I’ll start at the beginning with this one, okay? Okay. So, when I, when I was about 19, I was an angry young man.

[00:00:48] Kyle Jetsel: And, I played a lot of sports to get my aggressions out. I kind of grew up poor and I was not happy about it. I felt like I got a raw deal. Yeah, I was really aggressive and growing up in the area. I did You’ve seen this part of me too camera. It’s funny that not many people know the details of some of that part of my life, but um after high school All kind of all the sports were over and I could still play city league stuff, but it didn’t really you know Playing sports every day in high school.

[00:01:19] Kyle Jetsel: You really have a chance to get that Well, after high school I was, I had moved out of my house and I was getting a little, I could feel the energy ramping up. The negative anger and, you know, me against the world kind of stuff chip on my shoulder. And I was walking down, uh, Jefferson Boulevard in Dallas, Texas in a little area called Oak Cliff.

[00:01:40] Kyle Jetsel: And I looked over and saw a burnt out laundromat with a bunch of guys boxing. And I thought to myself, you know, this is a way to legally try to hurt people without getting arrested, right? That was my mentality. So I spun and walked in off the streets and obviously was the only white guy in there. Okay.

[00:02:04] Kyle Jetsel: And this, and it became, it was really, I learned so many lessons from boxing. I boxed for four or five years. The most important lesson I learned is that I shouldn’t be a professional boxer because that really wasn’t. Right. I just wasn’t that good of an athlete. But one of the other things that they teach you that was that really impacted me and still to this day is that you always have a little extra energy.

[00:02:28] Kyle Jetsel: Right, and let me give you an example. So when you’re fighting and you’re punching, right, it takes a lot of energy There’s a lot of stress on your body, right? You’re trying not to get killed, right? Yeah, you’re really you’re you and you can get what they call punched out like you can throw ten punches And I would challenge people to go out go outside and throw ten punches just ten count them aggressive punches You’ll find yourself your heart rate is way up.

[00:02:56] Kyle Jetsel: You’re breathing heavily It’s tiring, right? Well, when you get punched out, your arms get heavy, heavy, heavy. And there’s this tendency to drop your hands. Okay. So the coach said, listen, when you feel that, when you feel your arms getting heavy, raise them up. Because if you don’t, you’re gonna get knocked out.

[00:03:16] Kyle Jetsel: And you can always raise your hands. You’re never too tired, no matter how tired you get. You’re never too tired to raise your hands. You always have what they call reserve energy, right? And I think people and I think people don’t another example is the NBA There’s a seven game series for the NBA Finals These guys play like they run up and down this court like maniacs for seven straight games at the end of it They have zero energy as you can imagine.

[00:03:42] Kyle Jetsel: They’re exhausted Yeah Unless they win if they win They run up into the stands and they celebrate with the fans right and then they go out and party all night long And you’re like right Complete now the team that lost guess what happens to them They can’t even move. They got to go lay in an ice bath for five hours, right?

[00:04:02] Kyle Jetsel: And so it, it kind of, it kind of made me realize at a real young age, I always have that extra energy, right? And it became a belief of mine that I have always, and this is when you said she thinks she’s exhausted. I think a lot of times we all think we’re exhausted, right? So there’s a couple of tricks that I came up with for myself.

[00:04:28] Kyle Jetsel: And I’ll just share a couple tricks with you and let you know that my wife did not buy into this crap for years. She did not buy in for years. Right? So, one of the things I realized too is that I can be exhausted if somebody comes up to me and says, Here’s a check for a thousand dollars. All of a sudden I get a lot of energy.

[00:04:46] Kyle Jetsel: And I’m pretty excited and I’m ready to go shopping all day or whatever it is I want to do with that. Right? Whenever my problem is solved immediately or whenever somebody comes to me with something that gives me energy, I have energy. No matter how exhausted I am now, is it the, is it what they give me or is it my mind changing my energy level because of what I received, right?

[00:05:10] Kyle Jetsel: So I realized I can, I can decide in those moments when I’m completely exhausted. You know what? What if I just get excited about something? Maybe I just won the lottery and I can start thinking about what I’m going to do to spend that. Right. That will give me. So if I can do that on demand, I’m going to do that on demand.

[00:05:30] Kyle Jetsel: Uh, huh. Right now. And I’ve come up against some walls that we’ll talk about as we move forward. But I want to know what you think about that. I’m gonna stop now because I have some other examples, but I want to know what you think of that. 

[00:05:44] Cameron Watson: Okay. So what comes to my mind almost immediately is, well, what about the recovery?

[00:05:49] Cameron Watson: Because one of my, one of the things I watched Sarah do when she, she gets to that point of where she’s drained her tank and she’s on reserves and then she keeps pushing and you know, she’s a mom, she’s gonna have, she has to do some things, but then it, uh, It deteriorates her health and she’ll get sick.

[00:06:12] Cameron Watson: She’ll get physically ill. She’ll get, you know, cold, whatever it is. And so, and then I think about the scriptural, uh, the scripture that says, Hey, don’t run faster than you’re able. And I think I’m trying to make it work in my mind because I think all of these principles are true, but it, there’s a prioritization that has to occur in the moment and you have to weigh.

[00:06:40] Cameron Watson: Is this going to be worth the recovery and is this going to be, why does that look, 

[00:06:46] Kyle Jetsel: I love it. Keep going. Finish your thought. I’m sorry. Cause I love where you’re going. This is going to be right into 

[00:06:51] Cameron Watson: it. Is it worth the recovery and is it worth the risk of dropping? Because, uh, I, I was pushing through one time.

[00:07:01] Cameron Watson: So I was, I, I’m six, eight, Okay. I used to weigh, you know, 385, but when I was healthy, I was a pretty healthy 310 guy, right? And I would, uh, people would ask me to help them move and I would help them move. And, you know, a piano, I liked moving pianos because I, I liked that feel of girthing up. And if anyone’s ever tried to move a piano by yourself, it’s near impossible.

[00:07:29] Cameron Watson: But I liked that feeling of having so much weight that I had to get everything lined up and perfect. and then just girth it up, and I love that. Well, one time when I was helping someone move, it was. I had gotten past that point of where I was like, man, I’m exhausted, but you know what? We’re almost done.

[00:07:46] Cameron Watson: I’m going to push through. I’m going to push through and I’m holding someone’s. It was like one of those double stack things that you would put in your dining room and my muscles start shaking and all of a sudden my left hand gives out like I couldn’t, I couldn’t make my hand hold it anymore. And so I swung my shoulder in and caught it.

[00:08:09] Cameron Watson: And I’m like, sorry, guys got to go down and we went down and I’m like, what is going on? And I, I could move it just fine, but I couldn’t get it to hold something that I should have totally been able to hold because I’d reached that point of exhaust and kept going. And then it just failed me. And so I need your story.

[00:08:29] Cameron Watson: I’m trying to balance all of those things and prioritize them. So now tell me why you started going because you 

[00:08:35] Kyle Jetsel: hit. When you’re lifting a piano, you hit a level of exhaustion.

[00:08:39] Kyle Jetsel: You were physically, and you were, you were given a, a physical manifestation of that. Completely understand that. You are right, Cameron. No question. Here’s the difference. Okay. Um, and, and Shelly and I had this conversation years ago. So, we were, we were, we went somewhere together one time and somebody said, Is he always like this?

[00:09:02] Kyle Jetsel: Is he always buoyant and energetic and full of… And she said, yes, he is. This is who he is all the time. Yeah. And they said, does it ever get on your nerves? And she said, yeah, sometimes it does. Right? And I thought, how could she say that? You know? But, she finally, at one point she came to me, and she said, I want to understand what you’re talking about, you know, cause we had talked about energy and exhaustion and, and I’m going to, I’m going to use her words cause I think they’re more powerful than mine.

[00:09:37] Kyle Jetsel: Right? Because I can tell you something and women, especially women who raise kids would say, yeah, well, you’re different. And I would say, okay. Yeah. So here’s what my wife said when I said, listen, it’s. It’s, it’s in my mind. I just, uh, I’m not gonna, I don’t have time to be exhausted, so I’m going to stand up and go to work.

[00:09:58] Kyle Jetsel: Right? Especially if I’m sitting on the couch and there’s, and I start to doze, which happens because I do a lot. I’ll hop up and go do dishes. There’s plenty to be done. Right? And I do it so happily that it re energizes me. Right? And she said, when I talked to her about exhaustion and you always have extra energy, she said, well, you’re different.

[00:10:19] Kyle Jetsel: And I, and I initially said, okay, you’re, you’re probably right. Well over the years she watched me and she knew now here’s one thing that would drive my wife nuts When I would lay down to go to sleep. Boom. I’m out. Yeah How can you fall asleep so fast? I would say because I’m exhausted and she would say well You never talk about being exhausted during the day.

[00:10:40] Kyle Jetsel: I said, that’s right.

[00:10:42] Kyle Jetsel: I Don’t because that’s not the time for Exhaustion a lot of now. This is not gonna make people happy, right? Well sure said, okay Talk to me more about this. I’m, I’m open to this, right? And I said, well, a lot of us create identities for ourselves and that becomes our identity. Now, if you’re the kind of person that gets exhausted from doing things during the day, raising kids, washing dishes, folding clothes, that is your identity.

[00:11:10] Kyle Jetsel: You’re, you are going to be exhausted and you’re going to, that is a belief that’s going to be hard to overcome. Yeah. Right. And get thoughts. Here’s the point. When, when somebody tells you I’m exhausted. That’s the thought, right? That thought creates that belief. I’m exhausted. I believe I’m exhausted. That belief creates action.

[00:11:30] Kyle Jetsel: That action creates habit. That habit creates identity and character. Okay. I remember years ago I was running my own business and I was tired. I was running a business, raising kids, being a husband. I’ve always prioritized husband and father, so I’d never let that fall. But I also was running a business, right?

[00:11:46] Kyle Jetsel: And I was exhausted, but I never, I never agreed to that until I laid my head down and it would make my wife mad. Initially. 

[00:11:55] Cameron Watson: Yeah. Okay. 

[00:11:56] Kyle Jetsel: She’s like, how can you fall asleep so fast? Cause I’m, I am now, I can admit I’m exhausted. I can lay my head down. I heard somebody say one time I can sleep when the wind blows.

[00:12:08] Kyle Jetsel: Right? 

[00:12:08] Cameron Watson: Yeah. I love that story. 

[00:12:10] Kyle Jetsel: And the idea is. Yeah, when the idea is if you’ve done everything you if you’re trying to accomplish all the things you should during the day You’re okay going to sleep at night, you know, you’re right. So I never admitted to being exhausted I never talked about being exhausted I would never if it came if it crossed my mind and I thought I’m tired Then I would immediately trigger go to work find something to do stay busy Go ask my wife how I can be helpful go run and play with my kids Right.

[00:12:34] Kyle Jetsel: What happens is, and I think it’s a, when I was running my business, I worked with a lot of other business owners who would constantly tell me how tired they were. And it became their identity. It was like this badge of honor. Golly, I’m so tired. I’m a business owner. I’m a badge of honor. And I, you should be impressed with how little sleep I get and how hard I work.

[00:12:54] Kyle Jetsel: Be impressed with my exhaustion and I don’t buy into it, right? I never did. I never said anything, but I thought you’re not any more, you’re not any tired than I am, but I don’t think you’re helping yourself here, bro. I don’t, I’m not impressed by your exhaustion. Everybody else is competing with exhaustion levels.

[00:13:10] Kyle Jetsel: All these business owners are talking about how little sleep they get. I don’t give a crap. I don’t want to hear that right now. Does it happen with moms? It happened with my wife. She would talk to her friends and they would compete, subconsciously compete, on who was more exhausted, who had more work to do.

[00:13:28] Kyle Jetsel: Right, I see this in the autism community all the time. They’ll, they’ll, they’ll identify their kid’s diagnosis. ODD, ADD, BHD, CRD, ASD, PHD, MASD, blah blah blah blah blah. They want to list all the different things that their kid has. Yeah. So you’ll be like, wow, that is impressive. I’m not impressed. Okay? All kids have issues.

[00:13:52] Kyle Jetsel: All kids. I think what happens, and this is going to make some people mad, is it’s become your identity and it’s impressed, you think it’s impressive to other people. That you’re pushing through this tremendous exhaustion that may or may not exist. But if you keep telling yourself, I’m exhausted, you’re going to be exhausted.

[00:14:12] Kyle Jetsel: You’re creating a belief and that is your identity. You’re an exhausted mom. Congratulations. Join the club. We’re all exhausted. Now, Shelly, the reason I can say this out loud is not that I’m being critical. It’s because Shelly told me this. Okay. Shelly said, I’ve realized, I’ve realized something Kyle. What?

[00:14:32] Kyle Jetsel: She said, have you noticed when I lay down now, I go to sleep really quick. And I’m like, no, because I go to sleep really quick. She said, it’s happening to me too. I said, why? She said, because I’m not, I am no longer admitting that is not me anymore. That is not my identity. I’m full of energy. Uh, if, if I feel like I’m getting exhausted, I find something to do to keep me busy.

[00:14:56] Kyle Jetsel: I keep rolling. I don’t admit that crap. It doesn’t help me. It’s like a self fulfilling prophecy, right? Now you talk about recovery. We all need recovery. Yeah, you know, hopefully it’s six to eight hours a night of recovery. That’s When you recover, okay, that’s when you recover That’s it’s designed that way now some of us by the way for years and years and years My son wouldn’t sleep at night.

[00:15:20] Kyle Jetsel: He’d wake up in the middle of the night. You know what I would do I would get up with him, and I would come down to the living room, and we would turn on a movie, and I would sleep on the floor, because you know why? I’m exhausted, and he would watch his movie, and watch his movie, and my wife loved me for it, because she got to sleep.

[00:15:37] Kyle Jetsel: Guess what? I did too. I just slept on the floor, because I was exhausted. I got up with him, which is hard to do. You think, you want to tell yourself, well that’s interrupting my sleep. Well, not really. I mean, I got up with him and flicked on a movie and I laid on the floor and he would climb on me and do his deal and watch movies and script back the lines, but I’m still I’m exhausted.

[00:16:00] Kyle Jetsel: You can’t keep me awake when I’m exhausted, right? He could climb all over me and pull my ears and, you know, jump on me and I would just kind of. I was exhausted, right? So I think again, I know this is harsh and I know people are going to say, well, you’re different. And guess what? I was different for my wife until she said, I’ve decided you’re not different.

[00:16:20] Kyle Jetsel: I’m different. And I’m just going to jump on board. 

[00:16:23] Cameron Watson: So, I think, I think there’s, I think the, um, I think it’s correct to say that you were different. And I think what you’re saying is you can be different too. And it might not be, you might not have the same effect. And from an outward perspective, they might feel different than the way that you look.

[00:16:45] Cameron Watson: But let me, let me share this. So my son, Oh, here, I’ll go back. I used to be a scout master and one of these young men that I just. His name was Corbin and this kid was amazing, right? This is the type of kid you want to marry your daughters. You could identify it. He was a teenager and you’re like, this guy’s going to be awesome, right?

[00:17:07] Cameron Watson: Well, uh, as much respect as that’s the highest respect I could possibly have for a young man is to think, man, this is the type of kid I want my daughters to marry. And yet on a camp out trying to get him up in the morning when it was time to clean up and get gone near impossible, the guy, he, he would hit the hay and something physiological was different.

[00:17:33] Cameron Watson: There was something different there where it, he didn’t bound awake, he didn’t, he eased into a wakeful state over time, right? And well, you’re pointing to your head. I’m watching my son. 

[00:17:51] Kyle Jetsel: I’m saying that’s me the same way. Cameron 

[00:17:55] Cameron Watson: gotcha. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So now my son, uh, who’s, uh, he has great ambition, lots of desire.

[00:18:05] Cameron Watson: Once he’s awake, man, he hits it. He goes and he goes and he goes transitioning from wakeful State to sleep state very difficult transitioning from sleep state to wakeful state Man, there’s something where when his body is not moving It’s really rough for him to to cognitively get alert and get into his typical state during the day So I’m with you.

[00:18:35] Cameron Watson: We started doing this thing where hey, you know what to in the morning? We we have to leave the house That’s and then it’s like almost everything’s okay and we’re just experimenting, right? We don’t know for sure what’s going to work. What’s not, but we’re trying to change the state, the physical state so that the mental fog that cloud of being not alert and not making decisions for yourselves can get pushed aside.

[00:19:03] Cameron Watson: So there’s something physiological as well going on, and everybody has a different degree. But I think the attitude is something that we can all work on. And I bet you, even if you have a great attitude, it can become even better. And if you have a horrible attitude, just think, wow, if I just make a little bit of change, how much more will I get?

[00:19:27] Cameron Watson: Uh, what kind of feedback? You said something I wrote, I wrote this down. We honor the state of exhaustion 

[00:19:34] Kyle Jetsel: because we celebrate. We celebrate it. We do. Yeah. Me too. We’re both exhausted. We’re great people because we’re exhausted. It’s almost like it’s a badge of honor, right? It’s just, and I don’t really get it.

[00:19:49] Kyle Jetsel: I don’t know how that helps me. It’s like saying, Hey, we’re both really picky ears.

[00:19:55] Cameron Watson: Well, you know, there’s something about the connection when you’re going through something with someone, you know, uh, a lot of people say, oh, you should never go to a movie on a date. And I’m like, why not? That’s a two hour shared experience that you can then talk about. If you, You know, if you want, it’s two hours of the same experience that gives you something to talk about when you’re exhausted and you’re commiserating with another mom or another dad, who’s exhausted, you’re able to relate and have a shared experience that builds connection.

[00:20:23] Cameron Watson: And I get that, but often it then becomes a contest of, well, who’s more exhausted and. I used to do, um, I used to work in the human services industry and we would do a camp every summer for adults with, uh, affected by different disabilities. And we didn’t, the counselors didn’t get any sleep because our downtime, our recoup was when we didn’t have to be on, right?

[00:20:49] Cameron Watson: We would have this phrase where we’d be like, well, I gotta be on, I gotta be aware, got to make sure that these campers who. Uh, have different abilities and all of these areas that we get the most out of the experience for them. So we are on all day long, and then once they go to sleep, then the counselors would have our reset.

[00:21:10] Cameron Watson: And that was exhausting. And it was fun because we weren’t like, Oh man, this is horrible. It was like, Oh man, guess what happened today? I was spraying out some underwear covered in poop and I got backsplash right in my face, no protective equipment on. So I got some camper poop hit me in the face. And it wasn’t, it wasn’t a complaint, it was a celebration of the fact that that was a unique situation and we had everything, so many stories, so many stories of camp life happened because we were on and we were pushing through and we didn’t stop.

[00:21:55] Cameron Watson: And when we come, when we, it was recharging to share our stories because it was fun and it was funny. As soon as it got to where it was negative and it was like, I just can’t know that the whole energy level was. It was just sucked all the energy out of it. And you could see this happen with some of the adults because we were, we were in our young 20s.

[00:22:20] Cameron Watson: I was in my late teens, young 20s doing these camps. And some of the, those in their later thirties, they would be like, I can’t believe this happened and you just see it on their face

[00:22:34] Cameron Watson: and they could not recharge and by the end of the week, they were done by the end of the week. I was tired. And I would sleep for a couple of days. It was great, but that, that attitude, the commiseration and the connection through shared experience, that’s valuable. But if you do it in a negative light, Oh, now you’re, you’re in trouble.

[00:22:59] Cameron Watson: You’re going to lose all that energy and your life is going to stink.

[00:23:02] Cameron Watson: I’m 

[00:23:02] Kyle Jetsel: so exhausted. Why would you ever say that out loud? Here’s a tip. Don’t ever say it out loud. Number one, number two, once you hear yourself say it in your mind. Say, you know what? Uh uh. What can I go do that’ll keep, because if you’re exhausted and you sit down, you should go to sleep real fast, right? If you’re exhausted, you should sit down and your eyes should close and you should be out.

[00:23:25] Kyle Jetsel: If not, go do something. This happened to me yesterday. Happens to me all the time, Cameron. I get five minutes, I’ll go sit in that lazy, lazy boy chair, and my eyes close. Right. And I’m like, oh crap, I don’t need to take no nap because if I take a nap now, I won’t sleep tonight. There’s a time for me to, to succumb to that exhaustion, right?

[00:23:45] Kyle Jetsel: I don’t nap. Napping is not for me. I know it’s for everyone. That’s fantastic. I mean, different things, you know, different people have to do things different ways. And all I know is my own experiences and what I’ve shared with my wife in this case. But I hopped up and went and did the dishes. Then there’s some clothes upstairs that need to be brought down and throw in the wa in the wash.

[00:24:03] Kyle Jetsel: And, and then I realized, shoot, I haven’t washed my car in days. So I grabbed my daughter and we went out and started scrubbing down one of the cars. Right. And, and the, the whole point is I just kept myself busy, right? And, and by the way, I started having fun with my daughter and we, my energy level went back up and, you know, then last night at 11 o’clock, I.

[00:24:22] Kyle Jetsel: I was sitting in my chair and I fell asleep. I woke up, it’s 2 a. m. Right? I went upstairs and jumped in bed, right? The point is, I think, is step one, how do you overcome it? And by the way, for those of you who don’t know, and you probably do by now, I’m a single dad with two kids on the spectrum, with teenagers in high school, so I got four kids at home.

[00:24:43] Kyle Jetsel: I work from home, trying to do a lot of stuff, get a lot of stuff done. I could probably be as tired as anybody. Somehow or another. Every time you talk to me, I seem to be alright, don’t I? That’s probably why your wife asked. She said, Kyle seems to always be so full of energy. Well, yeah, because a lot of it is my identity.

[00:25:04] Kyle Jetsel: Right? It is my identity. Can someone 

[00:25:07] Cameron Watson: change their identity? 

[00:25:09] Kyle Jetsel: Of course. 

[00:25:10] Cameron Watson: By the way. You say of course, why is it so obvious to you that you can change your identity? Because isn’t your identity who you are? This is just who I 

[00:25:19] Kyle Jetsel: am. Yeah, because Yeah, because I was a freaking angry, I would just as soon knock you out as have a reasonable conversation with you, Cameron, at 19.

[00:25:28] Kyle Jetsel: If we can’t change, then we are jacked, man. You know what, if you think you can’t change your identity, you are jacked, by the way. You’re, you’re, okay. I can’t do it. You’re different. This is what my wife used to say. Well, you’re different. Okay, I’m not going to argue with that, but I am going to let you watch, and if you ever decide you want to talk about it, we can.

[00:25:48] Kyle Jetsel: And she did, and she said, you know what, that’s not helping me, right? Being exhausted is not productive, it’s not helpful, and I can’t do things in the spirit of love when I’m exhausted. It all becomes about me being exhausted. It’s a, for, for Shelly, now I’m talking in Shelly’s words. It’s a selfish thing for me to be exhausted when I got things I got to do and kids I got to raise and I can’t it Shelly one time wrote She created what she called a 90 day self care program for herself And it was she called it when you got no time and you got no money 

[00:26:22] Cameron Watson: A lot of people Yeah, I came 

[00:26:25] Kyle Jetsel: home one day.

[00:26:26] Kyle Jetsel: She was just grinning from ear to ear and I’m like, what’s going on with you? She said I I I got a plan. I said you’ve been pretty bubbly last couple days She said cuz I’m working my plan. I said, what is your plans for me? You don’t get to know all my plans, right? I’m like fine. I’m happy to see you happy Energetic bubbly extremely.

[00:26:45] Kyle Jetsel: My wife is always happy, but she was Extraordinarily happy, right? And after a while she started telling me, you know, and you’ve heard me say this Cameron, when the mood is good, it doesn’t matter what’s happening in your life. Right. Everything’s going to be okay. But when the mood is not good, everything can be going perfect and you’re, you’re running down a bad path.

[00:27:07] Kyle Jetsel: Right. It’s a lot of it is mood. And so she, she, what she did was she said, okay, I got no money. I can’t leave. I can’t do self care by leaving and going on a two week trip and escaping my family. I couldn’t, she couldn’t even go for 1 day at this point because my kids demanded so much. They were young.

[00:27:26] Kyle Jetsel: Right. If she’d go to the bathroom, they’d be leaning against the door crying. Until she came out, you know, and rolling things under the door because they were so attached to her. Right. Yeah. So she created a 90 day self care program for when you got no time and you got no money. And she would, she went through this little program on her own and it changed her.

[00:27:44] Kyle Jetsel: She said, when my emotions and when my Exhaustion and when my frustration becomes more important to me than my love for others I got a problem and I got to really work on that right and so she made it a point She said okay. Tell me what the crap tell me about your brain. What are you thinking when you say yourself exhausted in your brain?

[00:28:02] Kyle Jetsel: How do you how do you manage that right? You kind of like we talked about before you create triggers for yourself for me I go to work. I stand up and do something right because you always have that extra energy again You’ll know, Cameron, when you get to the, when you get to the moving a piano and your arm gives out.

[00:28:20] Kyle Jetsel: Mm hmm. That’s completely different than what you’re talking about on a day to day basis, okay? We’re not moving pianos. You know, we’re raising kids. Now, I know I’m talking a lot, but with all that being said, I have experienced the other side of this recently, okay? And I’ll share with you what I learned from this experience.

[00:28:41] Kyle Jetsel: When Shelly passed away, Shelly was, you know, I have, I have friends who tell me if I need to just recharge, I’ll go hiking, right? Or I’ll go golfing or, you know, maybe women will go shopping, retail therapy, right? When, when they need to recharge, they, well, Shelly was my recharge, right? When I started feeling like the weight of the world was on my shoulders or I was feeling getting down, I just go to her, right?

[00:29:06] Kyle Jetsel: And she was my recharge. So after she passed away, not only was my best friend and my wife, And the mother of my children ripped away, my recharge was ripped away, right? And I found myself, I think, maybe feeling some of the things that I think sometimes, it gave me some insight into, into maybe how moms feel or maybe how others feel when they’re just exhausted, right?

[00:29:33] Kyle Jetsel: Because the emotional stress of that experience, the worry for my kid’s future, you know, All these things go through your mind and that emotional stress can be absolutely terrifyingly exhausting, right? And so I realized after a couple weeks that I was almost incapacitated by the emotional exhaustion.

[00:29:59] Kyle Jetsel: Okay? And I thought, you know what? This is… I can’t keep doing this. My emotional exhaustion is more important to me than my love for my kids right now. And that’s a problem. I went and read Shelly’s 90 day self care program that she had produced. Yeah, and I said I have got that. I’ve got to create a plan to manage this.

[00:30:19] Kyle Jetsel: I have to have a series of tasks. It’s kind of my cost formula. What’s the challenge objective strategy tasks? I needed tactics that I could do on a consistent basis to fight off this emotional exhaustion to manage my emotions better because emotional exhaustion can’t be like the piano, right? Right. I think if, if we don’t manage our, and I think this was Shelly’s issue, she had to learn to manage her emotional, the emotional, mental, emotional, when you, when you’re emotional in your mind, it can create exhaustion.

[00:30:49] Kyle Jetsel: So she had to learn, and I think that’s what helped her was the 90 day self care program helped her to manage. That emotional part of it that was tearing her down, right? Her thoughts were, were, it was started in her, in the thoughts, and they were, they were getting away from her, into her emotions, right?

[00:31:06] Kyle Jetsel: And so she had to do that, and luckily created that, and some strategies that she had created that I dug into, and was able to customize them for our family. And it brought me out of that emotional exhaustion, right? And allowed me to start creating tasks, doing work. And that work could, not only could it fight off that emotional exhaustion, it can…

[00:31:26] Kyle Jetsel: It could compensate for some of my worry. I could say I’m doing everything I can. I have to let the chips fall where they may now, right? I mean, you do everything you can, and then you let God do the rest. But if you’re, you’re mired in your exhaustion, you’re not doing anything, and it doesn’t feel good.

[00:31:43] Kyle Jetsel: And it’s a spiral. So you almost have to step away from it and say, I gotta get active here. I gotta do something to address. You know, you talked about this. And this is a touchy subject for you, but you wrote your son’s obituary. Yeah. And it freed you, because that was some emotional pain and exhaustion you were struggling with, and it was tiring and exhaust, right?

[00:32:04] Kyle Jetsel: That, I know, when you told me the story, I’m like, I could feel it weighing on you so heavily that it had to just be beating you up, right? . But once, once you took action and said, okay, I I, I gotta be a dad. I gotta, I gotta be there for him. I got, this needs to be more important. My love for him needs to be more important than my own.

[00:32:25] Cameron Watson: Well, let me, let me actually share with you, because I’ve thought a lot about this and I, uh, because first off, I recognize it’s completely strange to accept the fact that your son’s likely to kill himself and to just accept the fact that there’s nothing you can do. And then to mentally go through, okay, so if there’s truly nothing I can do, cause no matter what, even in a, we had him hospitalized over five times and I say over five, cause I’m pretty sure it was six or seven and I can’t remember the number, but we had him, we hospitalized them even in the hospital where it’s protective custody.

[00:33:04] Cameron Watson: There was still a chance that he would be able to end his life and he would die of mental illness, right? So for me, this concern and this worry, the, the constant trying to figure out what else I could do when I, when I finally got to the point where I was like, okay, so there, I can’t prevent this. I can do a lot and I was going to do everything I could, but I can’t guarantee that he wasn’t going to.

[00:33:35] Cameron Watson: Uh, die of mental illness. So for me, I was like, okay, so then what if the worst happens, then what? And I was like, okay, well then I’m going to have to plan a funeral and I’m going to have to figure out how to tell people that my son had passed away in a re, I don’t want it to do it in a respectful manner that could be also helpful to others.

[00:33:59] Cameron Watson: And so I thought a lot about the language. And then I, I, it went from being, I went that shift of, okay, let’s just pretend it happened. It went from being a victim of something I had no control over that I had no ability to prevent to something. Oh, I can take action. And so I started to figure out the language.

[00:34:23] Cameron Watson: I talked to my wife. She was not a fan of this at all, right? She did not want to deal with. If, if there was nothing we could do, there’s got to be something we could do. And I recognize that. So this is something I had to do internally. And then I got said, okay, so we’re going to plan the funeral. I started thinking about what he would want others when he’s in his best state, what he would want for others.

[00:34:49] Cameron Watson: And so, okay, he would want this to be a topic. He would want us to thank his friends who helped bring the joy that he had in life. To the forefront of his mind and helped him, uh, experience so much, so many experiences. So I was going to make sure I thanked his friends and then I was like, well, if I’m going to do this, I should just go ahead and write the, the talk I would give at his funeral.

[00:35:16] Cameron Watson: And so I went through and I, I hit all the things and. Once again, went from being nothing I could do to, okay, I’ll accept that that no matter what I do, there’s still an element outside my control to what, what I do afterwards. And, um, I’ve thought a lot about it because I don’t know how healthy this would be for most people because I, I, I’m not a healthcare professional by any stretch of my imagination.

[00:35:46] Cameron Watson: And I can’t help but think that for some, this. Potentially could be debilitating it would do the opposite of what it did for me because I ever you know Sure, so I went through and I did that and it was so liberating for me to go Okay, so now I can just do what I can and I know how I’ve done the hard thing I in my mind I present priest pretended I imagined, and I had the emotions of what would happen if my son, uh, died by his own hand.

[00:36:22] Cameron Watson: That, that was… But then the planning and the preparing and reflecting on how I would communicate and what he would want once again, when he’s, when he was not suicidal, when he was not in the depths of depression, battling for his own life, what would he want for others? And it became. It became a very liberating thing that changing from being, I have no control into something purposeful.

[00:36:55] Cameron Watson: And then accepting it and going, well, I can’t control all of these things. It’s like the serenity prayer for anyone who’s in part of a 12 step program, right? You know, uh, help me let go of the things I can’t control. Help me do the things that I can and know the difference, right? That was very, very powerful for me.

[00:37:15] Cameron Watson: When I talked to my mom later, about this because I was like, how strange is this? And should I talk to others about it? Because it seemed weird that it would be so helpful for it really was. It took, and I, I’m not making any recommendations for anyone else to try it. And she goes, well, this is what I’ve done my whole life when I’m nervous.

[00:37:36] Cameron Watson: Yeah. My mom, she’s. We, my brothers and I, we call them life lessons and they’re in the hundreds. We, well, that’s life lesson 432. She, she has life lessons. And one of them is that you take the worst case scenario and you imagine what it would be like if it happened and then what you would do to deal with the consequences of that happening.

[00:38:01] Cameron Watson: And then. You can set it aside because you now, you, you have a plan. You always have a written plan. Things happen once and then you have a plan. This is our flow chart mentality. Okay, what would we do? All right, now we have a box to open. If that thing happens, we don’t have to worry about it happening because we have a box, we have a box.

[00:38:24] Cameron Watson: It’s on our shelf. We can open it if the worst thing happens, but otherwise we don’t have to worry about it because. It hasn’t happened yet, but we have a plan if it does. And that’s what she’s done her entire life. And it’s what she’s taught my brothers and I to do, which is to, okay, if it’s the worst case, come on, there’s gotta be a worst case.

[00:38:44] Cameron Watson: Is it, it can’t get any worse. What, what? Okay. So for me, the absolute worst case in for, for me is that my son succumbed to the mental illness and he died, spiraled my wife into a mental depths of depression and she dies and my family, my other seven kids all are affected by these two events and there is a huge potential of additional Mental health issues for for the other seven.

[00:39:19] Cameron Watson: Okay. So sure. For me. Connection with deity that’s, I start embracing and what’s funny is it helped me start embracing when I didn’t need it, but start embracing deity, recognizing that there is a higher power and he loves us and he cares about us and it’s not just my kids, they’re his kids too. So recognizing that, then leaning into, okay, and if this happens, what can I do to help Sarah?

[00:39:52] Cameron Watson: Because that’s going to be the hardest and thinking about all the things to protect her from this horrible thing that potentially could have happened. And I put a box around all of these things and I prepared and the weird thing is once I was once I’ve gotten to that a certain point, then I started being able to move again.

[00:40:13] Cameron Watson: It’s like I cleared enough room that I can start to physically move and that. Um, life lesson from my mom of deal with the worst, put it in a box and set it aside because you have a plan. You don’t need to open the box unless it happens. Had freed me from the worst thing I could possibly think of. And it’s not my son passing away.

[00:40:37] Cameron Watson: It’s my son passing away and then my wife passing away. That that’s where I got to now. I don’t, you know, talk to your health care professional or someone else that you trust before you try it. Because it is painful on a level that, um, I it’s, it’s, I’m sure it’s worse in real life, but the worst case rarely happens.

[00:41:01] Cameron Watson: And so what I experienced in a micro experiment or a thought experiment was agony. And I don’t recommend you do that if you’re not prepared to dig yourself out of it. Yeah, 

[00:41:13] Kyle Jetsel: that’s a great point, Cameron. You know, when you, when you describe that process, I think what you described to me and I, I aspire to this as well, right?

[00:41:25] Kyle Jetsel: Is you, when your emotions and fears and worries become so important that you can’t be the stabilizing force for your family, you’re all suffering. Yeah. And what you did was you, you had to put yourself through. You had to put yourself through that to become the pillar that now your family can, and that’s what you want to be.

[00:41:50] Kyle Jetsel: Right? You want to be that pillar again. You know, I, I’ve, I’ve told people this in this. Let me, but let me, let me start by saying if something we say offends you, that’s not the point of this. Really. I’m gonna go back to our disclaimer, . Listen, we’re just brutal couple of guys, right? Yeah. Figured out. We just have, we’re just trying to share with you what we think we have figured out for us, and we know we’re still learning, right?

[00:42:14] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah. Um, I, I want people, I don’t want to, my life to be destroyed by anything, and I don’t want my kids lives to be destroyed by anything, and that, that could be death, that could be disaster, that could be tragedy, right? I want people to look at us and say, that’s how you manage that. That, and I want my kids to look at me and say, that is what you should do.

[00:42:43] Kyle Jetsel: And I want them to come and say, how are you doing this? What are you doing? I need, you know, it doesn’t mean I, you know, I, I know when you say, uh, my son, one time, uh, on the one year anniversary of my wife’s passing, my son called me up and he said, Hey, I mean, you know, what’s coming up. I’m like, yeah, I know.

[00:42:59] Kyle Jetsel: He said, what are you, what are you going to do? And with a smile on my face, I said, well, I’ll probably disappear and, uh, dive into the depths of hell. And I started laughing. 

[00:43:12] Cameron Watson: Yeah. 

[00:43:13] Kyle Jetsel: Right. And he, and he didn’t think it was funny. And I could hear it in his voice. He got really silent for quite a while And he said you’re coming back, aren’t you?

[00:43:24] Kyle Jetsel: That’s what he said, right? And I said, yeah. Oh, yeah I said no, I you have to understand Alec i’ve got to face this storm occasionally Yeah, but i’ll face it. I know i’ll face i’ll face it with strength and courage and turn to god I ain’t going nowhere bro Don’t you worry about that, right? I said, but you should know there are times when you have to and you just described to me You have to dive into the depths of hell You have to go there right and let it and feel it and make sure you have you know God is 

[00:44:03] Cameron Watson: with you.

[00:44:03] Cameron Watson: Yeah, make sure you take a lifeline. Otherwise

[00:44:07] Kyle Jetsel: Right because What you, you know, what we’re not suggesting is you can push it down and never address it. Right? I don’t, that’s not what I do. Right? Yeah. What I do is create a plan and act on that plan and work at that plan. And there are occasions where, but I like to plan those moments. Okay, I want some time.

[00:44:28] Kyle Jetsel: And escape and be alone, nobody else needs to see that. Right. Right. But I do need to feel that I need to. It’s something I have to, I have to face that storm occasionally. Right. And I’m going to face it with strength and courage and with God by my side, and I’m going to come out the other side, but living, you know, it’s, we all have to visit.

[00:44:48] Kyle Jetsel: We just can’t live there. Right? And I think that’s, I think, If we go back to the original conversation, exhaustion, we all visit, right? It’s not something, and it’s not something to subconsciously celebrating. 

[00:45:05] Cameron Watson: Okay. Hold on. I think I just learned something and I don’t know if this is true yet, but let me, let’s talk about this.

[00:45:12] Cameron Watson: If you don’t mind, you can visit states of exhaustion because you need to address the fact that you’re, where, where your capacity is, right? And if you don’t, if you just ignore it, you’re going to drop a piano or you’re going to drop a piece of furniture. Press your foot. Yeah. Yeah. And that, and then you might do some real damage that then your recovery is not just at night.

[00:45:35] Cameron Watson: It’s We’ll visit a doctor, cast x rays, whatever. And right. I am being metaphoric, right? I’m talking about physical, but I’m talking mental here. It’s okay to visit exhaustion. And perhaps, perhaps based on what you just said, it should be a planned visit with a beginning. And for you, it sounds like your plan was, you know what?

[00:45:59] Cameron Watson: I’m going to plan my exhaustion for bedtime and then I’m going to plan my end of exhaustion date when it’s time to get up in the morning. Yeah. And I’m going to talk to Sarah about this because I watch her and I’m in awe at what she handles and what she goes through and how she deals with life. And she feels like I’m, I’m like, man, look at all that success.

[00:46:25] Cameron Watson: And she’s like, looks at the infinite list of other things she could do. And she goes, look at all the stuff I should have done. You 

[00:46:31] Kyle Jetsel: know? Yeah. And that’s, that’s a, that’s a, it’s a trap. That’s a Satan trap. Devil trap right there. So maybe, 

[00:46:40] Cameron Watson: maybe it’s okay. So here, okay, I’m going to tell another story when, so I was, I was the president of a volunteer organization.

[00:46:48] Cameron Watson: We had about 150 members and it was, I came in just as we are combining two groups that were fairly independent. Had to do cohesion. I love team building. It’s one of my passions, right? I love it. So I was right. I, when they asked me to do this, I was like, yes. And then they were like, and we need you to do these things.

[00:47:06] Cameron Watson: I was like, no. And they were shocked because normally when they ask you to do this role, uh, they give you a list of things to do. And most people say, okay, yeah, I’ll do that. And I said, I, I have to do a lot beforehand. So I pushed back and I said, give me, give me a couple of weeks. Well, I got into the, I, we started working really well and this was right before COVID, then COVID happened.

[00:47:29] Cameron Watson: Um, we did so much volunteer work. It was wonderful. It was just a edifying experience. Then at the same time, my life started falling apart. My nephew, uh, died of mental health issues. He, um, my other nephew attempted to end his life. My son got, um, uh, his, his, uh, mental health balloon. He add enough pressure to anybody.

[00:47:58] Cameron Watson: And the weakest spots going to give way, right? Jordan Peterson talks about that. So his mental health balloon squeezed and compressed so much that it gave way. We started to have to deal with some of those things. And then my wife had surgery. I had an abscess in my lung. I was on a call with Brock. Uh, good buddy.

[00:48:19] Cameron Watson: You actually know Brock. Yeah. I’m on a call with him and I start coughing and I start coughing up blood. Right. And in the movies you cough up blood and then you die. So he’s all. Yeah, . And then how would be too scary? It was all these things started happening. I started losing weight, which is great except, um, it was because I couldn’t eat, couldn’t, couldn’t drink.

[00:48:39] Cameron Watson: I had a hiatal hernia that had twisted and I had a blockage. All, all of these things started hitting my family kid breaks her. Um, the another kid in a serious accident breaks her back overwhelming and I got bogged down and I started to experience. I started to experience depression. I didn’t experience anxiety.

[00:49:01] Cameron Watson: I normal normal anxiety levels, but depression. I started to experience and I’m the head of this organization. We were in a meeting and I, I was, you said something earlier and I said, right, but I actually want to disagree. You said no one else needs to see it. Uh, I don’t, I think that was just hyperbole on your part.

[00:49:25] Cameron Watson: I do think it’s important that you share the depths with some people because this, 

[00:49:30] Kyle Jetsel: by the way, I’ve written about it and posted it. There you go. After it happened. Okay, gotcha. 

[00:49:36] Cameron Watson: Well, I’m in the middle of it, and this group of men, uh, they, they know about some of the things, because they hear about it, right?

[00:49:45] Cameron Watson: They’re like, one of them drove me to a mountain home, his name’s Brent, he’s a good, you know, you really find out who your good friends are in the midst of tragedy. I, I totally get the saying now, a friend in need is a friend in deed. Anyway, he, he drove me out to Mountain Home to pick up my daughter’s car where I saw this crushed and mangled car that should have ended her life.

[00:50:08] Cameron Watson: And instead, she just had a broken back and, uh, you know, just. So many blessings came from that, but, uh, they, this group of men had heard about these things and then they’re talking in, in one of the lessons that they were talking about, they were talking about, um, this guy who was climbing some pillar. And he got scared and he wouldn’t let go.

[00:50:33] Cameron Watson: And it was funny because they’re all talking about, Oh, well, all you got to do is, you know, have faith in God. And, and I believe that. I believe all you have to do is have faith in God and act because faith can cause action. But I was so in the middle of depression and trying to walk the walk and I couldn’t do it anymore.

[00:50:54] Cameron Watson: I started sobbing in this, in this meeting. And I just said, listen. I can’t do this by myself. And you know what, if it wasn’t for some of you climbing up on my tower, where I’m just hanging on for dear life, because I thought, I thought that this was never gonna end because it just kept getting worse.

[00:51:17] Cameron Watson: Every time I’d be like, it’s okay, this has got to be the bottom. And then we would reach another level of hell. And, and as I’m sitting there talking to these men, I was like, some of you have climbed up on the tower with me and that has saved me and saved my life. And it’s not about just reaching out to God.

[00:51:38] Cameron Watson: It’s about God using others to be there with you and to help you release and let go of what you’re hanging on to. So that you can get into a place of safety and I don’t think that it’s healthy for us to not share how awful life can be and to pretend like it’s just fine. It’s going to be fine. It’s fine.

[00:52:05] Cameron Watson: Life is great, you know, because sometimes. Life is hellish, and it’s okay to visit that exhaustion. It’s okay to acknowledge that this is horrible. And so all of this is going on. I’m getting depressed. I’m having a hard time getting up, which is not a problem I have. I’m having a hard time doing the normal things, which is not a thing that’s normal for me.

[00:52:30] Cameron Watson: And so I’m, I’m depressed and I started thinking about my mom’s life lessons and I started thinking about, I was like, you know, I’m just going to take all of this crap. That’s on my floor. I’m going to put in a box and I’m going to put it on a shelf and I’m not going to deal with it because I literally, it’s like cleaning your garage.

[00:52:51] Cameron Watson: Sometimes you got to clear the garage completely it out and then you can organize it. So I, I decided that, you know what, I’m just going to take all this stuff, scoop it into a box, put it on the shelf. And for me, it’s extraordinarily visual. When I say I, the box, I visualize a cardboard box. I put the stuff in it.

[00:53:10] Cameron Watson: I close the box. I visualize putting it up on a shelf. I visualize doing that. And then I, I leave it alone and I started to come out of the depression. Now, my wife is like, I don’t think that’s healthy. You’re not dealing with all of the stuff you’re putting in a box. I was like, I don’t know how, I don’t know how to act.

[00:53:32] Cameron Watson: I don’t know how to live. If I have to deal with all this stuff on my floor and in my room and in my in my mental capacity, there was so much stuff. I couldn’t live life. And so I started doing this. And then she’s like, but what what happens if something. you need to deal with. I was like, well, what happens is that box falls onto the floor, dumps out and I see all the stuff.

[00:53:57] Cameron Watson: And then I put it back in and I put it back on the shelf. And she goes, will you go talk to him? Great therapist, great counselor. She goes, would you go talk to him about that? I was like, sure. And so I had, I go talk to him and he’s like, well, that’s interesting. Right. No commitment. And he goes, uh, right. I, that’s a coping mechanism that seems to be working, you know?

[00:54:18] Cameron Watson: And I was like, yeah, he’s very, very good. He’s an excellent one. It’s hard to find them. But, and then he says, I would make one suggestion as you’re shoving all the stuff into your boxes, pick it up and look at it and decide if it needs to be dealt with right now or if it’s okay for it. So I just added this.

[00:54:40] Cameron Watson: So now I’m like, does this need to be dealt with now? Because, you know, paying the bills, you got to deal with that now. Right, right. Other things, mowing the lawn, you know what, there are weeks, I’m like, you know what, the lawn doesn’t need to be mowed right now. I can put it in a box, defer that maintenance and put it on a shelf.

[00:55:00] Cameron Watson: That extra step makes it much healthier. And I’m so grateful that my wife was like, that’s not healthy. Go get some advice. Because now my process, instead of just ignoring it on the shelves and to, instead where the shelves get so heavy, the whole thing collapses. And I have a big mess again. I deal with those things that have to be dealt with.

[00:55:20] Cameron Watson: And then I’m able to prioritize and put other things into boxes onto a mental shelf. And then live life and that experience, I visit it. I acknowledge it. And then I end it. I don’t, I don’t just wallow in the mess. I say, okay. Taking it and I’m setting it aside. And I love what you said about it’s okay to visit.

[00:55:46] Cameron Watson: You just don’t live there. And I’m going to talk to her about perhaps scheduling time for exhaustion. And I know that sounds funny, but I got to figure this out. We have to figure this out. My wife and I. We deal with a lot, like a lot of parents do. Sure, sure. She just, she just had surgery. Get this, Kyle.

[00:56:07] Cameron Watson: She had, finally, they took her tonsils out because she would get strep throat all the time, right? And it’s supposed to be that you get your tonsils out and you don’t get sore throats and strep anymore. Right, 

[00:56:19] Kyle Jetsel: right. You’re not supposed 

[00:56:20] Cameron Watson: to. Yeah, the week after she recovers, she gets sick. Now she’s, she, she’s on an antibiotic for the same thing that this is supposed to prevent.

[00:56:29] Cameron Watson: And it’s just like… Really? Okay. Let’s acknowledge it, but let’s not live there, you know? And right, 

[00:56:36] Kyle Jetsel: right. So here’s, you said a couple of things there that I want to, and I’m going to share with you, I pulled up my wife’s 90 day self care guide. Okay. Right. And I can put it in the chat for you, but I want to read to you something that she wrote that, well, she didn’t write it, my wife didn’t write, but she would talk to me and I would write it and I would say, is this it?

[00:56:57] Kyle Jetsel: She’d say, yeah, right? So I want to read to you what she said, and you said a couple things. I want to start before I read this by saying, way too many people are afraid of compartmentalizing this stuff, so they wallow. Yeah. I don’t want to push it down too low, because if I push it down too low, it’ll explode.

[00:57:13] Kyle Jetsel: So they just wallow in it all the time, right? Like that’s healthier, right? And I’m gonna suggest no, you can’t and I’m gonna read you what my wife said because I think this describes it Well, she said, um, let’s see here. If the devil can get the mother he can get the family She said she read that a few years ago and it stopped me in my tracks I decided right then that I couldn’t let the issues at the center of my difficulties get the best of me and ultimately the best of my family I think sometimes God makes us aware of things going on in other people’s lives because really he is hoping we will notice that we are doing those things too.

[00:57:49] Kyle Jetsel: Of course we should empathize, empathize and connect with them, but instead of just that I became more aware of myself and how easily I stumble and get off track. I also realized something even more revealing. This is what the devil wants. He wants us to be distracted. He wants us to have too much on our plate.

[00:58:05] Kyle Jetsel: He wants us to be stressed and overwhelmed. He wants us to be stuck in the hustle and too busy to pay attention because that is how he creeps in. into our mental health, into our faith, into our homes, and into our families. It’s no coincidence that in this time, in this day, when the power of women has never been elevated higher, the devil wants us to get discouraged, overwhelmed, frustrated, grow angry, and get bitter.

[00:58:27] Kyle Jetsel: Why? Because he knows we set the mood, and if, and if we can inspire our families, our husbands, and our kids, we can basically create the generation as an incredible force, if we set the right mood. But if we set the wrong mood, It’s not good. Does this sound like what we’re talking about? So I committed to doing a few things.

[00:58:46] Kyle Jetsel: I committed to step away from distraction and overwhelm. I committed to step away from unnecessary stresses in our lives. I committed to setting a good mood even when, especially when things didn’t go my way and the results have been incredible, right? The whole point I think she’s trying to make there is, you know, you and I had this conversation about good versus evil, right?

[00:59:08] Kyle Jetsel: And, and I think it was a private conversation where I said, that’s some evil crap. And you said, well, it’s not really evil. And I said, I have to see it as evil. So I won’t even run that direction, right? And I think what it is, is thoughts lead you to goodness and to God or away from goodness and away from God.

[00:59:26] Kyle Jetsel: Okay. Now, some people would say frustration, exhaustion, that doesn’t lead you away from God. Does it not? I don’t know. Ask yourself, really, how do you act when you’re exhausted? What do you do? How, what is your mood? How do you feel? Right. When you’re frustrated, when you’re discouraged, those are things that will lead you away from goodness.

[00:59:49] Kyle Jetsel: It’s hard to be headed towards goodness when you’re frustrated. Again, 

[00:59:53] Cameron Watson: this is where we disagree, right? Cause that’s where I turn to God and sometimes God gives us The opportunity to be so humbled and to hit 

[01:00:03] Kyle Jetsel: what you just told me is exactly what I’m saying. If you feel discouraged, you turn to God, right?

[01:00:10] Kyle Jetsel: You don’t stay in that encouragement and keep running down that discouragement path. You don’t stay in that, on that path. These are triggers for you. And that’s what I’m saying too. Okay. We’re all going to have those feelings, right? We’re all going to have those thoughts, exhaustion, right? We’re all going to have discouragement, frustration, anger, bitterness.

[01:00:28] Kyle Jetsel: We will all have those thoughts. Yeah. The question is, what do we do with them? Do we, do we stay there? Do we play in them? Cause if we play in them, it takes us, what you just told me is you, it’s a trigger that helps you turn towards God. Right. Right. Now, if, if a next time I say I’m really exhausted, You say, you know what, I’m going to say a prayer for energy and I’m going to go do something and I’m going to turn to God and say, God, I feel exhausted, but I don’t want to be that person.

[01:00:56] Kyle Jetsel: I don’t want to be exhausted. Give me a little energy. Help me. What can I do to rejuvenate myself, to pretend I’m not exhausted, to, to, we all have that reserve energy, right? We all have it, which is, it’s not, I’m going to go back to what Shelly said. It’s not a, it’s not, we can’t celebrate. It’s not, it’s, we almost, it’s not a badge of honor.

[01:01:18] Kyle Jetsel: Right. Yeah, right. We’re all gonna get exhausted. That’s okay. That’s what happens when you work hard even when you don’t work 

[01:01:25] Cameron Watson: hard It was movies where they like start comparing scarves, you know, they’re like, oh look at this 

[01:01:30] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah, 

[01:01:31] Cameron Watson: my my cousin by the way at six feet of scars Because he had everything physical wrong with him.

[01:01:40] Cameron Watson: Well, now 

[01:01:41] Kyle Jetsel: that you said that, now that you said that, I’m going to measure mine and I’m going to come back and try to outdo him. Well, 

[01:01:47] Cameron Watson: yeah, you know, he had like a lung. Uh, like a lung transplant. I mean, I’m making now I’m making stuff up, but he had issues with his lungs. He had hip replacements. He had so many surgeries.

[01:02:00] Cameron Watson: It was astounding, right? And, uh, he was funny about it. So on his, uh, gravestone on his, uh, marker, it says it ain’t a ham sandwich. Well, it, well, it ain’t a ham sandwich and that just became his thing. When something would go wrong, he’d be like, well, it ain’t a ham sandwich. And then he would just move on.

[01:02:24] Cameron Watson: Right. He would acknowledge it. And that was his thing. Uh, three areas. If you’re, so you can, for me, I think I’m taking from this, that we should identify. When you’re feeling exhausted, what are those things? One of these three areas you can start to do, and maybe it’s a mix, but connection with God connection with others and connection with self.

[01:02:49] Cameron Watson: And the risk is if you choose connection with self, like make sure that it’s actually working and not just reinforcing the state. I’ve seen this a lot in 12 step programs where you do an inventory and you forget the next step, which is to then talk about it and get rid of it. They’ll just wallow in the misery of where they’re at and they take, they don’t even clean up their side of the street so then they can, you know, give the rest to God.

[01:03:16] Cameron Watson: The. Connection with God. That’s cool. Figure out what that works for you. I have what works for me. Connection with others. One of my things is my mom and my, uh, when, when I’m like trying to figure things out, I’ll talk to my mom. She is, uh, non emotional. She helps me process. But if I really, really want to solve it, then I have to get intimate emotionally with my wife and it’s vulnerable and I have to pick the right time because I don’t want to take my load and add it to hers.

[01:03:52] Cameron Watson: But there’s, you talked about how Cheryl, Shelly was your, um, recharge person or what did you say? How did you 

[01:04:00] Kyle Jetsel: describe her? Yeah, she helped me recharge, but I got to be clear on that, Cameron. Because I’m the guy that didn’t believe in, in sharing everything with my wife. Yeah. There are intimate emotions and details about my life that she never knew and I don’t think I would have ever shared with her.

[01:04:18] Kyle Jetsel: Right? Not because I didn’t, you know, obviously we had a top, top 1 percent happy marriage, but I, I, and I, and I know I’m different here than a lot of people. I would rather figure out my stuff on my own. Right? Me and God. Mm hmm. And what I want to do is I want to, I want to figure it out, come out the other side, create a plan.

[01:04:37] Kyle Jetsel: With God’s help come out the other side and then I don’t mind sharing that information Right and writing it up and posting it out there There are things that Shelly learned about me because I wrote about him

[01:04:49] Kyle Jetsel: Because and and then maybe this is just the the uber masculinity part of me or something or the You know, I, I never wanted, Now this is going to come across as wacky, man. Okay. But I needed you to see me as a pillar, right? And I’m very, very, very, very, very, I can think of once in my life. where I told her how much pain and struggle I was in once.

[01:05:15] Kyle Jetsel: Right. And probably compare that to the 50 other times I just figured it out and went about my business and stood strong. Right. Right. And then wrote about it for other people, you know, and again, I know that’s different because I’m, I’m, I might be more self, um, sufficient than a lot of people. Right. And I think I probably had, 

[01:05:38] Cameron Watson: Yeah, I think I think you just identified the issue.

[01:05:41] Cameron Watson: The thing is everybody’s going to be have a different way to apply one of the three, but you do need a connection with someone. I don’t think it’s possible to live life isolated successfully. So, right, right. I agree. And just so you know, I, I try and share things with Sarah, but I’m very careful when and I’m very careful with the amount of detail and twice in my life I’ve talked to her where I’ve come to some conclusions spiritually my connection with God and I’ve just let her know Hey, I’m going to be trying to become more spiritual on purpose So there are things I’m going to stop doing and it’s different.

[01:06:26] Cameron Watson: And I did that so that she was aware. So when I chose not to do things that I’ve done in the past, she wasn’t like, well, why not? You know, I could just say, Oh, remember, I’m trying to become more spiritual and I’ve done that twice in my life. And, um, I believe I should always be trying, right? But these two times it was a self reflection.

[01:06:49] Cameron Watson: Why do I feel so distant from my creator? So I was like, well, you know, the joke is, um, God and I were like this and I’m the thumb. But the other joke is if you find yourself separated from God, it’s not God who moved. Right? So for me, I wanted to become closer to my relationship with God to become better.

[01:07:14] Cameron Watson: And so twice I’ve done that. And I’ve told her because she’s part of that relationship that I have. With my father in heaven. So, but I do agree. I’m careful with when I share and what I share. Here’s a fun fact for my wife and I, if I don’t exhibit, if I don’t acknowledge the fact that life sucks, sometimes it makes her feel guilty.

[01:07:44] Cameron Watson: Like, she shouldn’t feel that way. So, by me just going and visiting for her time, and just being all, yeah, that’s awful. Oh, terrible. That’s rough. And have some compassion. I gotta be careful not to have empathy, because otherwise I get bogged down too. And then I’m like, alright, so here we go. Now what? And, it’s, I love the quote, uh, therefore what?

[01:08:08] Cameron Watson: Right? Okay, you’ve described it. If it’s true, therefore, now you need to do something else. If that’s true, it’s not good enough just to accept it as true. That has to cause something to change or something to be different. Yeah, 

[01:08:25] Kyle Jetsel: I think it’s, it’s kind of the same idea that, you know, seeing the mailman is great.

[01:08:31] Kyle Jetsel: When the mailman comes, but it’s not really seeing the mailman that matters. It’s what’s in the envelope that you open up and actually, right. It’s what are you supposed to do now? The mailman came. Oh, great. Right. And I feel that way about the feelings I get from heavenly father, you know, feeling the spirit of God.

[01:08:48] Kyle Jetsel: Right here people ought to say do you feel that you know, and i’m like, yeah, well, that’s the mailman So what are we going to do now? Right. We gotta go get the letter and we it’s not enough to just just feel the mailman come by We got to open up the letter and see what we got to do something now. All right, what are we going to do about it?

[01:09:05] Kyle Jetsel: You know, um It’s interesting one of my favorite jokes of all time is And this is kind of what you said earlier, right? It’s the pastor decides to go to the the grand canyon, you know, and he’s walking along the edge of the grand canyon and just Enjoying the beauty of the Grand Canyon and God’s creations, you know.

[01:09:24] Kyle Jetsel: And as he’s walking along, the ground breaks away beneath him and he starts sliding down the side of the Grand Canyon, plummeting to his death, you know, and he’s just grasping things and finally grabs the side of a branch sticking out of the side of the wall. Right. And he’s hanging on and he can’t go up and he can’t go down and he’s stuck.

[01:09:43] Kyle Jetsel: And so he starts screaming for help. Hey, is anybody up there? Is anybody up there? Please? I’m stuck. Please. You know, nobody can hear him and he hears, Yes, my son. Right. He says, Oh. Is that you God? And he says, yes, it’s me. He says, well, God, I’m stuck on the side of this cliff. Help me get off. Right. I need to get off there.

[01:10:02] Kyle Jetsel: And God says, do you have faith? Of course I have faith. I’m a pastor. I preach. I’m of course I have faith. I pray every night. I have a lot of faith. And God says, if you have faith, let go of the branch. And the guy says, is anybody else up there that can 

[01:10:17] Cameron Watson: help me? That’s great. Oh, 

[01:10:19] Kyle Jetsel: that’s funny. A lot of time. I think a lot of times for us, you know, and this is how we can get, you know, uh, I heard, uh, Dion Sanders, you’re familiar with him.

[01:10:30] Kyle Jetsel: He’s a famous pro football player, one of the greatest football players of all time. He now coaches a college team and he’s, he’s very spiritual, right? And he, I saw him talking to his team the other day and he’s got all of them repeating after him. And he says, I’m too blessed to be stressed. And he has these, an entire football team repeating this.

[01:10:48] Kyle Jetsel: I’m too blessed to be stressed. I’m too blessed to be stressed. I’m too blessed to be stressed. And he says, control what you can control. And give the rest to God. Nice. Right? And it just says control what you can control and give the rest to God. You can control your actions, your efforts, and your thoughts.

[01:11:07] Kyle Jetsel: Hmm. That’s what you can control. Actions, efforts, thoughts, right? And I thought, wow, that is so powerful. Because it starts with a thought. Right. I’m exhausted. There’s your thought. What’s the action that comes after that? You know, for me, it’s I don’t really have time to be exhausted I’m gonna hop up and go do something.

[01:11:25] Kyle Jetsel: That’s my next thought Right, if I if I think that if I feel that exhaustion now if I’m at a point where the panel is gonna fall Right, I have to address that, you know, there are days when you have to visit right, but that’s not the case 99. 99 percent of the time we always have a little extra energy That’s right.

[01:11:44] Kyle Jetsel: He always do. Yeah. And so, I can, so, the next thing is my, is my thought, that right, starts with a thought, and my next thing is my action, right, and you and I talked about this earlier, you can, you can, you can, you can do action in a couple of different ways. You can walk over and start washing the dishes with your head down, exhausted, and you’re still in that state, that thought is, right, that’s giving energy to that thought of exhaustion.

[01:12:13] Kyle Jetsel: Or you can stand up straight, put your body. Right, because you can. I don’t care how exhausted you are. You can stand up straight. How would I stand if I wasn’t exhausted? I’d stand up like this. How would I walk if I wasn’t exhausted? I’d walk like this. Use your body to change your thoughts. 

[01:12:28] Cameron Watson: Okay, that was the truth.

[01:12:30] Cameron Watson: Hold on. Okay, I’m gonna, I’m gonna come 

[01:12:32] Kyle Jetsel: back. And then when you walk over and start washing the dishes, you stand up straight. You do it with energy. You do it with happiness. You, you talk yourself, right? And you maybe you sing a song to yourself your favorite uplifting song. I don’t care you have things right?

[01:12:46] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah, pretend you just kind of check for a million dollars See what that does to you. I bet you’ll stand up straight. I bet you’ll wash dishes happy fake it if you have to right I’m, not saying don’t acknowledge those things. I’m just saying there’s a time for it There’s a time not for it all day long every day.

[01:13:01] Kyle Jetsel: This is not a time to be exhausted, right? Eric taught me this more than anything. Okay, I don’t get to have a bad mood with him Because if I do, oh, hell breaks loose. I might be, it might be at 2:00 AM in the morning, and if he screams in his room, guess what? I don’t get to do? I don’t get to hop up and go in there.

[01:13:20] Kyle Jetsel: What is it now? Mm-hmm. . Because you know what happens if I do that? Everything’s goes crappy. So you know what I do? I get, I sit up in bed, I’m exhausted. It’s 2:00 AM I sit up straight, I put my body in the right position, I stand up straight and I say, I got this right. I put myself mentally and physically in the right state, and I walk in there and I say, are you okay?

[01:13:40] Kyle Jetsel: What’s going on, buddy? And I talk him back down, right? And then I get him in a good state and get him back to bed. And then I go back to bed and I’m exhausted. I fall right back to sleep. Right. And if I can’t guess what I do, I start doing something. I mean, maybe I’ll get up and write or whatever it is, you know, after Shelly passed away, I couldn’t sleep.

[01:13:58] Kyle Jetsel: I mean, I was sleeping two or three hours and it was, I would wake up and it was overwhelming for me and I was exhausted. And you know what I did during the day? Nothing. The same crap I’ve always done. Nobody knew. You know why? I didn’t play that game. I thought, if I can’t sleep at, that’s my time. If I can’t sleep at night, it ain’t happening.

[01:14:16] Kyle Jetsel: And eventually, you know what happened? I was sleeping at night because I was so freaking exhausted. Cameron, I would, I would, I, I read books on how to sleep. On how to fall back asleep. When, after Shelly passed away, because my, emotionally I was a mess, right? Mentally I was shook. Yeah. At one point, I remember kneeling on the side of my bed and just praying to God to help me sleep.

[01:14:38] Kyle Jetsel: And I fell asleep praying. Oh, right. And I woke up hours later with my knees aching. I got to bed and I couldn’t sleep. So I got back on my knees on the side of the bed, start praying again, fell asleep. And I’m like, is this the new deal? Do I have to just kneel and pray every night till I fall asleep? And you know what?

[01:14:54] Kyle Jetsel: For a while I did. Yeah, I did. I would fall asleep in prayer. I had about four pillows down there, so it was really squishy. I mean, I knew it was gonna happen, right? But then I got to where I’d kneel in my own bed, so I could at least roll over. I mean, it was just crazy. But the whole point is, I don’t really have time for that.

[01:15:12] Kyle Jetsel: Now, and that, that’s, that’s my identity. Right? And I’m busy. You, I mean, I’m not any busier than any other mom raising a bunch of kids, right? But I’m busy. But I tell you what, I’m going to manage my, the emotional part of it as much as I can. I’m going to stand up straight and tall. I’m not going to get mired down in it.

[01:15:32] Kyle Jetsel: If I’m exhausted during the day, I’m going to address it quickly, move, move away, try to, right. I’ve got to, I’ve got to be at my best. I’ve got to, I can’t succumb to that, right? Because if I do, I know that mood will start to drain and we’ll be in trouble as a family. I set the mood now. Yeah, not my wife. 

[01:15:51] Cameron Watson: So I love what you said earlier.

[01:15:54] Cameron Watson: And so a couple things. Number one, let me talk about where I disagree with Deon Sanders. Um, and this is just a small little point, but these small little points bother my little, uh, internal brain. I, I cannot control my thoughts, but I can control my reaction to my thoughts. That’s the key. That is 

[01:16:15] Kyle Jetsel: n has those thoughts.

[01:16:17] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah. 

[01:16:17] Cameron Watson: So growing up, right? Yeah I used to be so growing up, I’d go to church and they’d say, God’s going to judge you on your thoughts. And back when I was a kid and I would see something, I’d instantly have a bad thought. I’d be like, Oh, no, no, I’m, uh, why can’t I control this? And then once again, life lesson, I think number 32, my mom would say, Hey, your mind is a stage.

[01:16:43] Cameron Watson: Sometimes bad actors come out onto the stage. That doesn’t mean you put the spotlight on him. You know, she’s so great. Um, I need to call her after this. But, uh, the other thing, the other thing that you said that I absolutely love and adore. When you can’t figure out what to do. in response to what you’re feeling, what you’re thinking.

[01:17:06] Cameron Watson: You said, uh, I didn’t write it down exactly. So I’m going to, I’m going to say it different, which is ask yourself, what would I do if I felt the opposite of this? And then go and do that. Force yourself to go do that because it can help create the emotion and the thoughts that you’re trying to do. And so, uh, one of the tricks that you taught me, I don’t know, a decade ago was, um, to, to set up triggers internally.

[01:17:36] Cameron Watson: So for me, skin is a temptation. And if my back when I was a young man, they said, Oh, you know, if you’re tempted, sing a hymn. So I would sing the same him. And then one time at church, they started singing that him. And I had the bad thoughts. I was like, Oh, no, I conditioned so now, every time I.

[01:17:52] Cameron Watson: Still to this day, I’m 47 years old when a specific You hear him and you think we’re cheating. I think of skin. It’s horrible. It’s 

[01:18:01] Kyle Jetsel: so funny. It’s not funny, it’s horrible, Tom. I know, I know, but it’s so funny at the same time because I think sometimes we’re not aware of that, right? Sometimes we, we, we, we create links in our life all the time.

[01:18:12] Kyle Jetsel: We just don’t know they exist, right? Right. I think that what happens with exhaustion, right? I think there’s, I almost, I almost think after talking to my wife for years about it, there’s this satisfaction in exhaustion too, right there. It’s so, and it’s because she talked about how her and her friends would talk about it in, in reverence, you know, and it’s, it was almost celebrated.

[01:18:39] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah. Who’s the tired because that’s a result of your effort, right? And so it was almost. Yeah, and it was twisted for her at that point, right? And I think subconsciously, you know, there might be some people that say I’m so exhausted Because it feels good to be exhausted because then you’ve put in a good effort, right?

[01:19:00] Kyle Jetsel: I have a different take on it I tell people all the time. It’s good to feel exhausted at 11 o’clock at night That means you put in a good day’s work, but that’s the only time you need to address it right before you go to bed, right? And I think you should 

[01:19:15] Cameron Watson: be exhausted Other people are constantly, uh, they, they also, there’s a lot of reward for this.

[01:19:21] Cameron Watson: Like when I was going through all the stuff, right, right in the middle of it, people would come up to me and they’d be like, Oh man, how are you doing? I know how hard this is. You had these things. And in my mind, I’m thinking, you don’t even know the half of it, but thank you. You know, and they were trying to buoy me up and I appreciate it, but they, the booing, the focus was on all the crap on all the yucky stuff.

[01:19:45] Cameron Watson: And what I needed. Uh, from others was the hang in there. It’s going to get better. You know, keep, keep it up. Keep going, you know, and someone, uh, they were like, man, your life is like job. And I was like, yeah, I, I know kind of the story of job. So I reread it. And so this became my response because it kind of became a theme at church.

[01:20:07] Cameron Watson: People were like, oh, you’re having a job moment. I was like, hey, job was a rock star. Okay. I am not Joe. My wife has not told me. Okay. To curse God and die 

[01:20:21] Kyle Jetsel: and die that that one of my favorite pictures. Yeah, curse God and die because, 

[01:20:29] Cameron Watson: you know, we believe in the eternal marriages. Right? So what is she really saying?

[01:20:34] Cameron Watson: She’s saying, hey. I hate this situation so much. I don’t want you just to die. I want you to on your way out to guarantee you’re not going 

[01:20:45] Kyle Jetsel: to be up in heaven because I don’t want to deal with you in this life. And in the next curse, she was, he was done with it. Wasn’t she? What a piece of work. She was right.

[01:20:55] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah. How deep, you know, it’s almost, she would almost have to do it in defiance of his faith. She couldn’t go up to him if he was struggling, right? She’d almost have to say, Your faith ain’t working, right? She would almost have to turn on him to say that, right? Which is really interesting. I’ve never thought too much about it, but…

[01:21:16] Kyle Jetsel: I can’t, and I guess there, I mean, there are times where you feel like that’s what your wife wants to tell you, you know, in, in lower, at lower points. Right. And, and not those words, but yeah, you’re kind of stupid. Right. You know, your wives will, will, you know, they want to say things to us because sometimes we do some stupid stuff and make some stupid mistakes.

[01:21:35] Kyle Jetsel: And sometimes, you know, when my wife said that it gets annoying that I’m so happy all the time and buoyant, it hurt. Right. I thought, well, you know, why don’t I just go and be moody and just give you a piece of that for a while, right? I thought, what’s the alternative, you know? It kind of hurt. It was my, kind of my curse of God and dying moment, I think, you know?

[01:21:55] Kyle Jetsel: But I realized ultimately, I realized ultimately, part of it, like you said earlier, your wife is, she, she feels guilty, right? When you, when you maybe see the bright side and she doesn’t, right? Again, the key to this thing is, the whole thing is, it’s not that I don’t have those thoughts. It’s not that I don’t.

[01:22:14] Kyle Jetsel: It doesn’t cross my mind how exhausted I am. I mean, all of those things are things that I go through too, right? It’s the, everything comes to the stage, right? The spotlight is really where I think, um, Where I think you’re, you know, when you said you don’t put a spotlight on those actors, right? I think the first step is to identify, okay, Subconsciously, am I enjoying being exhausted?

[01:22:39] Kyle Jetsel: Is it a way for me to connect with other women? There’s got to be another way. You know, or men. What is that? There has to be. Yeah. Well, I can tell you this. I got a lot of friends. Now, I’m not saying, and maybe I don’t have a lot of friends, I have a lot of acquaintances, but most of my acquaintances seem to like me, you know?

[01:22:59] Kyle Jetsel: And maybe they just put up with me because The alternative is not going to be healthy. If I know you don’t like me, I’ll give you a reason not to like me. There’s a little spite in me on that 

[01:23:08] Cameron Watson: one, right? The 19 year old 

[01:23:10] Kyle Jetsel: comes out. That’s right, but I guess the point is, you know, we talked about this last time.

[01:23:16] Kyle Jetsel: I feel like I’m living in a happy, joyous, wonderful world, right? Yep. And it’s because of the spotlight. You know, any, any challenge you face when you, when you address it and you, there’s two ways to handle it. One is to spotlight it. Right and run down that path. The other way is I got to create it if I’m exhausted all the time What is my plan?

[01:23:39] Kyle Jetsel: Okay, I need a freaking plan This ain’t healthy for me if my kids see me exhausted all the time that I can’t support them and serve them properly Again, it goes back to what I said earlier. I want to be the model Okay. Yeah, if a family loses their mom and wife early, I want them to say how did you do it Kyle?

[01:23:56] Kyle Jetsel: I want to do what you did. I’m watching And I want to be that model and get, I’m not afraid to tell you, man, I’ve been to the depths of hell and I’m, I’ll probably go back in a month. What’s today? The 22nd, 22nd. Yeah, I know what day it is, right? And now I don’t plan on just, I’m going to plan on doing some things that I know will make me remember those good moments, but also know that it’s going to hit me, right?

[01:24:20] Kyle Jetsel: I know, man, and I’ll probably dive in, but like you said, I’m going in with a lifeline. I’ll go in with a lifeline. I’ll feel that I’ll face the storm and then I’ll come out and I’ll say, you know what? I’m gonna I may have to do that for the rest of my life. This isn’t something that goes away You know, yeah, and guess what?

[01:24:40] Kyle Jetsel: I’m not gonna let it win. I’m not gonna let frustration. I’m not gonna let bitterness I’m not gonna let exhaustion that crap ain’t winning. I’m winning, right? And maybe I wonder sometimes that you know, I’ve had this epiphany that maybe the reason I was just so Tough grew up so tough and angry and bitter and like a fighter is that now I know how to fight I feel like I know how to fight for good, right?

[01:25:03] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah, I’d er, but I don’t physically fight. I think I just kind of look at things and go I ain’t going down like this bro. It ain’t happening I will fight this feeling or this thought or this emotion or this because I ain’t going down like this I’m gonna find it 

[01:25:20] Cameron Watson: You’re choosing to be a hero instead of a villain.

[01:25:24] Cameron Watson: Same backstory. 

[01:25:25] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah, I sure want, I sure, I sure do want to present that, right? I mean, I, yeah, because dang, I could be bitter. I got good reason. I can be angry. I can be frustrated. I can, I got all, I got some pretty good reasons. To be all and you do too. Right? We all do. Yep. You know, we all have them. Where do we go with it?

[01:25:49] Kyle Jetsel: Right? I got good reason to be exhausted. Maybe that’s why she wanted to talk about it because she knows I’m I’m I’m raising kids alone. Yep. Right. I’m raising kids alone. I’m I’m running the whole deal now about myself. And I got high energy kids that have big personalities that are defiant, all those things, right?

[01:26:09] Kyle Jetsel: My personality planted into a kid that don’t know how to manage it yet. You got some stuff, you got the face, boy. You know, I mean, and I’m laughing, right? Because I get it. 

[01:26:19] Cameron Watson: I, uh, I, uh, listen, I, I like econ, you know, I listen to podcasts and I watch pod, I watch YouTube videos. Uh, one of the podcasts I enjoy listening to is called Freakonomics Radio and this last week’s topic was, uh, an author of a book, I think the book was called The Luxury of Marriage, I think, maybe, or anyway, and the whole premise was that, um, even though teen pregnancy has plummeted in recent years, in recent decades, the number of single parent homes has increased substantially.

[01:27:00] Cameron Watson: And across the board, the numbers show that it’s much harder on the economic future of those kids and prosperity wise for those in a single parent home. And they, um, they have, they discuss all these things, right. And, you know, listening to you talk, I see, I see why just. Your wife passed away and your kids are in their teens, your youngest are in their teens.

[01:27:35] Cameron Watson: They’re high school students, right? So yeah, I mean I cannot Phantom I can’t figure out in my mind what I would do if I had to do both sides Not that I wouldn’t want to, not that I wouldn’t be there for him. I would have the desire. I just don’t think, I can’t imagine the capacity requirement to do, to do that.

[01:27:59] Cameron Watson: Now, see that acknowledgement I think is true. So for me, I’m going to start figuring out what I can do more right now, just to help out. But what’s interesting is I think what that could turn into, if you were a wallower. Oh yeah, you’re right. Can’t. I don’t have the capacity. I, all of a sudden you become the victim instead of the hero.

[01:28:21] Cameron Watson: You, you don’t even become the villain. You know, you’ve become the, the victim of the circumstance. Anyway, I, 

[01:28:29] Kyle Jetsel: well, I got a plan by the way, if it ever does happen to hit me up. I got a 12 page written plan. Okay. 

[01:28:36] Cameron Watson: I’m prepared with my flow chart. And one of the steps on it is to talk to Kyle, 

[01:28:41] Kyle Jetsel: bro. Okay. I’ve had, you know, Russell Brunson.

[01:28:44] Kyle Jetsel: Russell Brunson is a owns ClickFunnels. It’s a really big company years ago. I want to say when I first moved here, maybe in the first three years I was here, probably 12, 13 years ago. Yeah, you got, you got his book. I dropped it off at your house. That’s right. I appreciate it. I was at the community pool and Russell Brunson has had a really good friend.

[01:29:05] Kyle Jetsel: That he would spend a lot of time with and his really good friend walked up to me at the pool And he says hey, you know my Russell and I were talking about this subject and You seem to just because of the way you seem to handle things you seem to have figured out and I said, oh I appreciate that. He said is there something particular you do and I said, yeah, I got it written up.

[01:29:25] Kyle Jetsel: You want it? He said what?

[01:29:27] Kyle Jetsel: Do you want it and he said I would love it And so, I mean, when I got home, I emailed it to him, my written plan, right? Well, probably two years ago. Remember, this is 13 years ago, right? And both he and Russell came back to me and said, Dude, this is the bomb, man. I’m following this process. This is… And I said, you know what?

[01:29:49] Kyle Jetsel: You did the right thing. You just came to me and asked, right? And I had it. I said, the cool part is you followed it. Well, you know, 12, 13 years later, Russell reaches out to me and says, Hey, I can’t find my copy of that thing and I want to refocus on that. Can you send it to me again? I said, absolutely brother.

[01:30:06] Kyle Jetsel: And I said it to him, right? The whole point is, you know, you mentioned this. Sometimes we’re not the first ones to go through this stuff, right? We’re not the first ones to be exhausted. I’m not the first one to lose his wife. My kids aren’t the first ones. There are people that have succeeded at afterwards and other people that have.

[01:30:22] Kyle Jetsel: And one of the things that I did do is I talked to 20 or 30 people, your wife, your wife was one of them, by the way, who lost their mother at a young age. Right. And you didn’t even know it. I was interviewing your wife while we were at the dinner one night. Right. And you just sat there and listen, I don’t know if you recognize what I was doing, but I was trying to understand how she saw it, how she viewed it, what she would have done differently, what she would have thought differently, how, and I was kind of trying to, and, and I went back home and wrote it up.

[01:30:52] Kyle Jetsel: I mean, I’m like, I’m not messing around here. This can’t destroy our family. It can’t destroy me. Right? It can’t. And so, you know, when you, when your wife says, Hey, I want to, I want you to talk about exhaustion. Right? Now the question is, what do people do if exhaustion is a problem? Can you pull out the cost formula?

[01:31:12] Kyle Jetsel: Can you, what are you going to do now? Right? You can’t control your thoughts. You’re going to have that thought. What are your actions going to be? And do you really, do you really want to overcome it? Or is there so much benefit to it? Right? If your husband comes to your rescue every time you’re exhausted, and you express it a lot, that may be beneficial to you.

[01:31:31] Kyle Jetsel: If your wife lets you sleep in every Saturday morning, because you, you’re exhausted from a week’s worth of work, That may be beneficial to you. If your wife wants you to go play golf on Saturdays to get out the freaking house because you need an escape because you’re getting all pent up in the house, you may not want to solve that.

[01:31:53] Kyle Jetsel: You may want to keep going and go, right. You know, people, my son told me something the other day. He was, we have a shared friend on Facebook and this friend is wacko. We have this friend because we like to. Watch what is posted by this whack right and some and we talk about it and a lot of it is They’re discouraged and people come to the rescue and we see what’s happening, right?

[01:32:24] Kyle Jetsel: If you express your pain and suffering online Everybody will come to your rescue and there’s a benefit to that. You get a lot of attention you get Uplifted people are like you’re so good. You can do better. You know, they just come to your rescue, right? Yeah And, and the problem is not being solved as much as it’s you, you, you, you kind of want the problem because then you can express it consistently and get rescued.

[01:32:48] Kyle Jetsel: Right. Recently, this person posted something about something about this. Their past year has been a year of tremendous challenges and growth. Right. And Alec came to me and we started talking about it and he was kind of sad about it. And I said, why are you sad about it? And he said, because I don’t think, I think people make the mistake of, Okay.

[01:33:09] Kyle Jetsel: When they’re faced with challenges, they, they think they’ve grown when in reality, they’ve just lowered their own standards. They’ve just gotten comfortable with this new. And I’m like, what? And he said, it makes me kind of sad because you know, if you don’t hold yourself to a standard and raise your standards, you don’t have growth, right?

[01:33:28] Kyle Jetsel: Maybe you just get more comfortable with your knuckleheadedness or your idiocy or your, you know what I am, who I am, I’m exhausted, my identity. But I’ve had a bunch of growth this year because I’ve just decided I am who I am, right? 

[01:33:44] Cameron Watson: What you’re describing Kyle, what, what, was it Alec who said this? Yeah. So what he’s describing is, this is where they are at, this is where they feel they should be, and they’re measuring growth by saying, you know what, where I should be is right here.

[01:33:59] Cameron Watson: Wow, I got so much closer, I really grew. 

[01:34:01] Kyle Jetsel: You, you, you nailed it, you nailed it, right? And I said, are you in touch with this person enough to, and he’s like, read the rest of the stuff around this, and you know, we’re an MHS psychologist, and obviously we could be completely wrong. Sure. Right? Yeah. And, and, um, you know, again, not judgmental as much as.

[01:34:20] Kyle Jetsel: It’s interesting to watch how the world works, right? The standards for us as individuals, you know, I have this theory that there’s a cost for things. Okay. There’s a cost. Now, if you want a nose piercing, that’s okay. You can choose to do that. But there are some people that may say, you know, I don’t think I’m going to associate with this person because they have a nose piercing.

[01:34:43] Kyle Jetsel: And you might say, there’s a cost. And you might say, I don’t give a crap. We’ll go. That’s okay. You’re willing to pay the cost. Right. That’s right. But people. People’s or maybe cursing. I don’t curse and it hurts my ears to hear people cursing when I go to high school games, football games. Now, my son’s don’t curse at least that I know of.

[01:35:02] Kyle Jetsel: They don’t do it around me, but also their friends come in. I heard one of my my daughter’s friends say a little curse word and she immediately caught herself was like, oh, I’m so sorry. She apologized to me. Yeah. Right. And I said, you don’t have to apologize to me, but I think the stage has been set, right?

[01:35:20] Kyle Jetsel: You don’t curse, right? But if you do curse, there’s a cost for that, right? There, some people will say, I don’t, I’m not sure I want to be around a person who curses a lot, you know? Now it’s okay for you to curse, but you also gotta be okay with the cost. Now what people have decided in this world is I don’t want to pay a cost.

[01:35:39] Kyle Jetsel: So you should be okay with me cursing. And if you’re not okay with me cursing, that’s a you thing and that’s fine. But guess what? The cost exists. Yeah. There is a cost. Now, I, I just won’t say anything, or, or somebody else might not say anything, but you’re paying, right? But a lot of people, and what they’re doing is they’re not, they’re doing this to themselves.

[01:36:00] Kyle Jetsel: You know, Alex’s point was, here’s where you want to be, here’s where you are, and you’ve just decided that, I don’t really, I don’t really want to pay the cost for this behavior, so I’m just going to bring my standard down to my level of behavior. And I got to be okay with that. And now that I’m okay with that, I’ve had a lot of growth.

[01:36:20] Kyle Jetsel: Look how, look how close I got to 

[01:36:23] Cameron Watson: where I want to be. Yeah. I 

[01:36:25] Kyle Jetsel: got to where I want to be. It’s comfortable where I’m at. Right. And it was really, I had never thought about it like that. But as I look around, a lot of us do that and I’m sure I do it too. Right. I have this theory that we’re all introspective until it hurts.

[01:36:40] Kyle Jetsel: And then none of us are, okay? Okay. There’s some things you don’t want to address about yourself. There’s things I don’t want to address about mine. Okay? I’m really introspective until it hurts me.

[01:36:53] Kyle Jetsel: And then I’m a little not so introspective. Yeah. And maybe I’m the guy that’s doing the same thing, right? Maybe I’m doing, maybe I’m hoping, right? It’s an interesting thought to have and it made me rethink kind of how some of the things I, I manage some of the things in my life, right? If it can happen to other people, it can happen to me.

[01:37:11] Kyle Jetsel: So I’ve really got to be cautious of those things. Right. So it’s something, it’s something to consider, you know, just being okay with who you are is fine, but it may not be okay with who you are capable of being, you know, are we, are we fulfilling our potential? I don’t know. I don’t even know if I am. I like to think I am, but I think we all like, we are.

[01:37:31] Cameron Watson: You know, I have a brother in law and I won’t use any names here so that, you know, because we now have family who listens to these things guys for listening and getting to this point where,

[01:37:42] Cameron Watson: but, uh, so I won’t say what side of the family I won’t describe anything except that we were at an event where we were going around the room and saying something nice about this person. And, uh, my brother in law said that he’s never seen someone with more potential. And I was like, Oh, that was the nicest, meanest thing you could possibly say.

[01:38:07] Kyle Jetsel: Well, it depends. It depends, because if you told me that, I would probably take it as a compliment. Which tells you how delusional I am.

[01:38:15] Cameron Watson: Right? Everybody took it as a positive. In my mind, I took it as a Whoa, that was That was cold. It was 

[01:38:26] Kyle Jetsel: true. What if he would have said it to you? 

[01:38:28] Cameron Watson: I would have been like, where should I put my efforts? What, what, what are you saying? What, tell me where my biggest improvement can come from the least amount of effort?

[01:38:40] Cameron Watson: If I have all of this potential and I’m and if I’m not hitting it, where, where should I focus in on next? What’s the next thing? Because I can’t do it all. Next step that would have the biggest bang for hitting that potential. 

[01:38:56] Kyle Jetsel: A little action, a little action. There you go. I like it. I like your answer better than mine.

[01:39:00] Kyle Jetsel: Cause I am 

[01:39:01] Cameron Watson: delusional. That’s funny. Oh, well we’ve done it again. We’ve talked for an hour and 50 minutes and uh, now we need to summarize. What, what am I going to take back to my wife so that she doesn’t need to watch all two and a half, you know, two hours of this podcast or video, how do we summarize this for her?

[01:39:23] Cameron Watson: What would be the cliff notes version of how to deal with exhaustion? Well, that’s, you’re 

[01:39:30] Kyle Jetsel: going to have to answer that one. I, cause I’m not, I don’t have to talk to her about it. And I can talk to her a whole lot different than you could. Let me tell you how it probably 

[01:39:40] Cameron Watson: can’t be a problem. 

[01:39:41] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah. How would I approach my own wife about it is I, I, I, I kind of really didn’t, you know, I kind of just supported her.

[01:39:50] Kyle Jetsel: And, you know, even though it was annoying to her that I was, Always energetic and bubbly. Somehow, I think, I’d like to believe that somehow, just through conversations and, and being together, you know, she picked up on it. I know there’s so many things about her that I learned just from her being with her.

[01:40:13] Kyle Jetsel: You know, I mean, just listening to her talk, listening to the way she managed her, the world, made me a better person, right? I needed to come towards her in a lot of ways. You know, she saw the beauty in the world, she created beauty in the world, and so… I really don’t know. I mean, if she goes back and watches the whole thing, she can, that might be the best thing cause she can create her own takeaways and you can talk to her about what her takeaways are.

[01:40:38] Kyle Jetsel: That might be the best thing, right? We’re still talking to her right now. So she’s going to see this too. Let’s 

[01:40:43] Cameron Watson: give my wife who has another two hours of stuff to do, right? That’s yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it’s one of those things. It’s not gonna happen because yeah, they’re more important my wife 

[01:40:55] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah, yeah, so you know what how about the cost formula let her create a cost formula for it You know, it works for you.

[01:41:04] Kyle Jetsel: I can’t 

[01:41:04] Cameron Watson: imagine it working for her, but 

[01:41:05] Kyle Jetsel: oh, it doesn’t work. Okay. Um, I 

[01:41:08] Cameron Watson: think what I know the question What how do we summarize everything that we’ve talked about and I think I’m gonna make the attempt. Did I lose you? No, I’m here Okay. So one thing we didn’t talk about that. I wrote down and I’m just gonna bring it up There’s a couple people in our congregation when Sarah goes to talk to them.

[01:41:29] Cameron Watson: It’s a relief valve And she gets better after talking to him. One of them is, uh, her last name is Jensen. The other one is Nelson. She goes, she talks to them, comes back feeling much better and ready to take action. So I’m going to, some of the things I wrote down that I’ll share with her. It’s okay to visit, but you don’t live there.

[01:41:51] Cameron Watson: Perhaps schedule the time. Uh, if you’re trying to figure out what to do, think about what you would do if you were feeling the opposite. Uh,

[01:42:04] Cameron Watson: Oh, I like it. Emotional stress is, uh, you, you should concentrate on what the next step is instead of all of the infinite things that you potentially could do. Just decide on the next thing and just focus on that and get moving. You know, when I was in the car accident and I had to go to physical therapy, all this, I was like all stiff and I wouldn’t move.

[01:42:28] Cameron Watson: Right. And they just had me start twisting and it exhausted me. I was like, what in the world? Just twisting is exhausting. And they’re like, yeah, you, you stop moving. You can’t, you’ll never get better unless you move. And so then I start moving. Then they added exercises and stretching. But sometimes the first step is just get moving.

[01:42:48] Cameron Watson: Yeah, 

[01:42:49] Kyle Jetsel: I agree. I like those. I like, I like where you’re going with that. That’s pretty good stuff. I will, I did, I did put in the messages my wife’s self care book. 

[01:42:58] Cameron Watson: I printed it out while we were talking. So I’ll give it to her. Yeah. And it’s really cool. Resonate with her. Cause it’s from Shelly. Yeah, yeah.

[01:43:08] Cameron Watson: There you go. I can tell that you did the formatting and you got it out there, but you can, you can feel Shelly in there. 

[01:43:16] Kyle Jetsel: And I, and I even said that at the beginning, I said, she wouldn’t share it with me. I finally got her to share it with me. So I wrote it, but this is her, right? She actually did it in a little notebook.

[01:43:26] Kyle Jetsel: She actually did it in a little notebook. It wasn’t as formal as what I did, but I realized pretty quick how powerful it could be. Now it does go against what most women like the idea of for self care. They like to leave. Oh, yeah. They like to get away. They like to go somewhere else where they don’t have to think about you or the kids or, and, and, but she couldn’t, right?

[01:43:47] Kyle Jetsel: And so that’s why she did it this way. When I tell women, this is funny, I share this with a lot of people. I say, Hey, you want a copy of my mom, my wife’s 90 day self care. Oh, they’re thrilled till they read it and realize it has nothing to do with leaving, escaping, getting away, running away from the problems, going out with girlfriends, taking a vacation.

[01:44:07] Kyle Jetsel: That’s what they all want, and I want it too. Right? I want it too. But this is more powerful, I think, long term. Because you can do this on your own. This is something you can control, right? Actions, effort, thought. This is really something you can do without ever leaving. Which is really powerful to me. And I think that’s what it’s all about for me, right?

[01:44:25] Kyle Jetsel: I’m not trying to change my circumstances. I’m just trying to make, I’m just trying to live within them in a better way, right? I mean, I’m not trying to leave. Escape. I’m not trying to run away from the fact that Shelley’s gone. I’m just trying to live really good in this, in this, in this deal, right? Your kids aren’t all of a sudden going to be great kids.

[01:44:46] Kyle Jetsel: They’re not going to, you’re not going to flip a switch and they’re going to stop doing what they do. Right? No, and I’m not saying they’re not, they’re probably great kids. My kids are great too, right? But they still do what kids do. Sure. You’re not going to, you’re not going away. Stress of the world is not going away.

[01:45:00] Kyle Jetsel: The stress of being a mom is not going away. The stress of being a dad is not going away. All that crap is not going away. I don’t care how hard you try. If I gave you a million dollar check tomorrow, you’d still have the stress. That’s right. You know, you’re going to think, well, I don’t have any money.

[01:45:14] Kyle Jetsel: Well, a lot of these people freak out, you know. Yeah. Their stress, it don’t matter, there’s no answer to the stress other than to figure out how to live in it. Thriving chaos, right? How do you live in it? And enjoy it and absorb it and accept it and face it and exhaustion is one of those things man. It is you know what All the things that are going on in your life are not going to change So so if you’re expecting them to change so you won’t be exhausted anymore ain’t happening question You got to ask yourself is do am I really enjoying being exhausted?

[01:45:43] Kyle Jetsel: Are there too many benefits to it that I really don’t want to let it go? But I don’t like I want to talk about how I don’t like it But subconsciously, do I really like is it really something that gives me a lot of huge benefits? It’s victimization, right? It’s it’s a it’s a form of victimization And you know, I think it’s it’s 

[01:46:00] Cameron Watson: I think it’s really healthy to identify.

[01:46:03] Cameron Watson: What do I get out of this? You know because it’s true you they are getting something out of it Let’s identify it and then compare that to what you potentially could And for me, uh, I look at the, my relationship with my wife. It’s the best thing in my life, you know? And it’s the most, it’s the thing I work on the most.

[01:46:27] Cameron Watson: And it’s the thing that just gives me the most joy out of all the things that I do in mortality. So for me. When, uh, the other night, by the way, I came in, I, uh, when you were like, Hey, what’s our topic this week? I asked her and she’s said, exhaustion. I texted you where we were set. Um, when I came in yesterday, she out of the blue just goes, so are you doing that thing?

[01:46:56] Cameron Watson: And I was like, hold on. I don’t know what you’re talking about. And I went and finished what I was doing. And I came back in. I was like, what are you talking about? And she goes, that thing. Did you already talk about that thing? I was like, talk about that thing. Hold on. I gotta go. And I jumped out again, dealt with some things, came back in.

[01:47:12] Cameron Watson: I was like, honey, I have no idea what you’re talking about. Can you give me some context? And she was like, well, didn’t you record that thing with Kyle today? That was yesterday. I was like, Oh my goodness, honey, no context. I had no idea what you’re talking about. No, that’s tomorrow morning. And she goes, well, you’re doing it today.

[01:47:28] Cameron Watson: You’re, you’re, you’re not letting it begin. I was like, That’s probably the sweetest thing she could possibly say. And I, I just love that aspect of my relationship with her. And so going, I’m going to go back. I have my notes. I’m going to cover some of those things with her and maybe we’ll record a followup of her and I talking about this subject after reviewing these.

[01:47:55] Cameron Watson: And thank you for that guide. Is it okay if I post the link to that guide for others? 

[01:48:01] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah, for sure. Share it. You know, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I’ve shared it with hundreds of people already. Tons of people again. A lot of people don’t like it right off the bat because they realize, oh, you mean I don’t get to go on vacation or escape or run away or disappear or go retail therapy or a lot of the things that people write.

[01:48:19] Kyle Jetsel: She just couldn’t. And she knew she was facing a challenge. Yeah, she needed self care. She wasn’t getting it. So she created it. What a dramatic thing. Again, we should have a conversation about it. I was going to write an article a few years back about the benefits of victimization. And so I started doing some research and there were so many and they were so powerful that I started wanting to be a victim and I tore it up and threw it away.

[01:48:44] Kyle Jetsel: I didn’t want to do any more research. Right. I mean, you never have responsibility for anything. You can always turn to other people that’ll lift you up, creates a connection. You don’t have to be responsible. You can blame everything on everybody else. There’s so many benefits, man. I’m like, holy crap. You can blame it on your body, your state, your situation.

[01:49:07] Kyle Jetsel: So many benefits, right? I’m like, holy crap, I’m in the wrong. I’m in the wrong vein here. That’s funny. I didn’t want to put it because it was way too, it was a, it was a promotion for victimization, right? You’re never wrong when you’re a victim, right? You don’t understand my situation. Mine is unique. You can’t understand what you haven’t walked in my shoes.

[01:49:34] Kyle Jetsel: All these things that everybody says, right? You have no idea. You lost a spouse. You don’t have two kids on the spectrum. One’s more severe. One’s a introvert. One’s an extrovert. They, they fight all the time. You cannot understand my situation. There’s so many benefits, right? You never have to take, I mean, you, I just named a few.

[01:49:56] Kyle Jetsel: Off the top of my head. I got to stop. It’s so appealing, 

[01:50:00] Cameron Watson: right? Sure can be, but going back to what your whole point is, Hey, you can acknowledge it, but then, then what, right? That’s the right. 

[01:50:11] Kyle Jetsel: Right. Then what I’ll, 

[01:50:13] Cameron Watson: I’ll go, I’m going to go in and I’ll, uh, hand deliver Shelly’s thing and I’ll have Sarah read it.

[01:50:19] Cameron Watson: And then, uh, I’ll let you know how it goes. Really appreciate it. Sounds good. Thanks Kevin. Thanks Kyle. 

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