Connect and Conquer
Connect and Conquer
Existing While Waiting to Die

My best friend outside my family asked for some advice that I did not want to share. We recorded our conversation and here it is in its fullness with a video and podcast.

How Do you Face Existence When you are Waiting to Die?

[00:00:00] Kyle Jetsel: Might have.

[00:00:06] Cameron Watson: I want, I want the mystery solved here. You, you’ve, you’ve hit me three days before saying, oh, I got a good one, or You got something, and then you won’t tell me what it is.

[00:00:17] Kyle Jetsel: Well, it’s because it’s, uh, it’s a challenge I’ve been struggling with for a while

[00:00:24] Cameron Watson: Okay?

[00:00:25] Kyle Jetsel: and I’ve had some recently that have made me question whether it’s a challenge I need to address or it’s just my new life. Right.

[00:00:40] Cameron Watson: Hmm.

[00:00:42] Kyle Jetsel: So, so I’ll share with you, I’ll kind of, the, I’m gonna get kind of raw here with you a little bit

[00:00:47] Cameron Watson: Okay.

[00:00:48] Kyle Jetsel: because, you know, uh, after Shelly passed away, she was pretty much my focus. A lot of the things that I did revolved around her. Obviously you, you know how that is, Cameron, you kind of have the

[00:01:03] Kyle Jetsel: same type of relationship with your wife, and as you can imagine, it throws a, it throws you some curves, right? You, my, my wife presented a tremendous amount of joy in my life, and not only did she do that, she, she planned all the joy in my life, right? So I was kind of along for the ride. My wife was pretty good about thinking outside the box and making things happen and creating things to look forward to, right? And I was just kind of along for the rise. And, um, so after she, after she passed away, I’ve, I’ve, I wouldn’t say I’m rudderless, but I’ve found myself, uh, you know, the old Kyle prior to her passing was probably 99% happiness. 1%. You know, I don’t know the other word for it. I wouldn’t say unhappy, but I would say contemplative maybe, or I don’t know. What’s a, what’s a good word for when you’re just kind of limb in limbo, you know what I mean? I, I don’t know the right word, but anyway, existing, let’s just say that. Well, you know, for the first six months or so, it’s like, uh, you’re facing so many new challenges every day that you don’t really have a chance to kind of think about where you’re at.

[00:02:33] Kyle Jetsel: And then once you start to realize this is it, right? I mean, I still wake up sometimes I can’t believe it, but after six months or so, you kind of have to settle in and say, okay, well I guess this really did happen. I don’t, I kind of have to face it. you’re laughing, but, and I still face that, right? But I’ve, I’ve found myself. Uh, I, I’ll just tell you what, how I feel I’ve been waiting to die. Right. It doesn’t mean I don’t live happily.

[00:03:12] Cameron Watson: Right.

[00:03:14] Kyle Jetsel: Uh, but it’s not a good thing. It’s not, it doesn’t feel like me. Right. It’s a, I’d say it’s a 60 40 Kyle in a happy place and 40% Kyle in a, uh,

[00:03:30] Cameron Watson: Placeholder.

[00:03:31] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah.

[00:03:32] Kyle Jetsel: yeah. A placeholder. And it hasn’t made me happy, but it’s, it’s something that I’ve, I’ve had to fight thoughts and feelings that have been, that have tried to crush me regularly. For a long time now. Right. And I’ve kind of gotten to a place where I’ve thought, okay, well this is, I mean, I can’t change what happened and if I’m 60 40, that’s probably better than most people anyway. You know what I’m saying? I mean, that’s kind of

[00:04:03] Kyle Jetsel: right.

[00:04:04] Cameron Watson: Uhhuh

[00:04:05] Kyle Jetsel: and my 60 40, my 60 is represented to the world. 40 is in, is in my own mind and in my own time,

[00:04:13] Cameron Watson: Internal.

[00:04:14] Kyle Jetsel: you know, so the world sees what they see, and that’s still who I am.

[00:04:19] Cameron Watson: Right.

[00:04:20] Kyle Jetsel: But that other 39% was also in that happy space because I could focus on Shelly and, know, the joy she brought. And so I kind of find myself in a place and I said something out loud a couple weeks ago, and my daughter heard me and I said something like, Hey, I, I’m not, it’s not like I have any joy in my life.

[00:04:44] Kyle Jetsel: Can you just help me out here? I. She said, what did you just say? Right. And, and it was, and I ran from facing it in that moment. ’cause I realized got a slight glimpse into the 40% that, that I struggle with, you know?

[00:05:02] Cameron Watson: Mm-Hmm.

[00:05:03] Kyle Jetsel: Well, the idea that I’m just waiting to die, it doesn’t thrill me, but it doesn’t, it also didn’t bother me so much.

[00:05:14] Kyle Jetsel: Right. I mean, I’m gonna, I’m gonna live joyfully at least 60% of the time. The other time I’m contemplative or existing, but that’s okay.

[00:05:25] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[00:05:25] Kyle Jetsel: Well, about a week ago, maybe a little bit more than a week ago, I had a dream and in my dream, I, I woke up and I was real dizzy. I stood up and started walking around trying to get my balance. ’cause sometimes I wake up dizzy. I don’t know what it is, but, and I ended up kind of falling outside the door into the street, looking for a friend that lives nearby. I was gonna try to get to him, my buddy.

[00:06:00] Cameron Watson: Alright.

[00:06:02] Kyle Jetsel: And uh, and then I passed out once I hit the street. And then I woke up on my own couch surrounded by 10 people from the church.

[00:06:14] Cameron Watson: Huh?

[00:06:15] Kyle Jetsel: And I’m like, and, and my buddy, right?

[00:06:18] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[00:06:19] Kyle Jetsel: So I said, Hey, thanks for, I said, I don’t know what happened. I was just kind of dizzy and thanks for dragging me back in the house and, and taking, watching out for me, right? And I could tell there was this, there was this overwhelming tension in the room. Why were there 10 people from my church there plus him?

[00:06:38] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[00:06:38] Kyle Jetsel: I tried to stand up and, and I was tethered to all kinds of different oxygen and IVs and all these other things, right? And I said, what, what’s going on? They said, well, you’ve been in the hospital for about a week and they finally released you. You’re home now. And I could

[00:06:56] Kyle Jetsel: tell everybody was in, they were in peril.

[00:07:00] Cameron Watson: Right.

[00:07:00] Kyle Jetsel: So I said, what’s going on? Tell me what’s going on. And, and they wouldn’t tell me. And so I finally talked Richard, and to tell me what was going on. Richard’s my buddy, he says, you have about a month to live. You’ve, you’ve got some terminal stuff that can’t be operated on. And I went, I kind of got, I went into a state of fury rage, right?

[00:07:23] Cameron Watson: No.

[00:07:24] Kyle Jetsel: And I, I woke up for real,

[00:07:28] Cameron Watson: Okay.

[00:07:29] Kyle Jetsel: and I was furious. I got up and was stomping around my house. I was stomping. I was so angry. The, the dream made me so angry. Right?

[00:07:40] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[00:07:41] Kyle Jetsel: And, and I’m the kind of guy, just so you know, I have dreams all the time. I remember ’em all because a lot of ’em, because I wake up all the time, I don’t sleep well.

[00:07:49] Kyle Jetsel: It’s rare that I sleep more than an hour and a half without waking up, at least opening my eyes and going, I can go back to sleep quickly, which is good. But I, but because I wake up so often in the middle of dreams, I remember most of ’em are just goofy and silly and I just discard ’em. But if they, but if they’re something that I feel like I need to figure out, then I’ll keep ’em in my brain.

[00:08:12] Kyle Jetsel: Or, or, or if they stay in my brain, most of ’em just go away and I can’t even remember the dream, right?

[00:08:19] Cameron Watson: Yeah,

[00:08:19] Kyle Jetsel: But the ones that stay, I think, well, they mean something. And I always want to make ’em mean something good

[00:08:25] Cameron Watson: sure.

[00:08:26] Kyle Jetsel: So I think somehow this. This is my perception of this dream, and my perception is my reality. As you well know

[00:08:35] Cameron Watson: Yep.

[00:08:35] Kyle Jetsel: that I need, I need to quit the 40%. I need to, I need to quit waiting to die. I need to quit existing in that 40%. And I’m not sure I’ve got some ideas that I’m gonna try, some things I’ve been working on since then, but I’m not sure how do you, how do you face existence? Right?

[00:09:06] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[00:09:07] Kyle Jetsel: And, and, and I know it’s a, it’s a tough question to ask people who have an experienced the kind of loss I have, but maybe, uh, maybe I’m, I’m too deep in the forest and I can’t see the trees, you know, you know what I’m saying? Maybe

[00:09:20] Kyle Jetsel: just an outside perception. So I’m curious just the thoughts that have come into your mind during that quick con, during that quick. I guess layout of, of the situation. I wanna hear your thoughts.

[00:09:36] Cameron Watson: uh, I don’t think you do wanna hear my thoughts, Kyle. They’re,

[00:09:41] Kyle Jetsel: do. I, I really do.

[00:09:42] Kyle Jetsel: They’re what?

[00:09:44] Cameron Watson: they’re the hardest thoughts ever.

[00:09:48] Kyle Jetsel: Let me hear ’em because I can face it. I can face it, Cameron.

[00:09:52] Cameron Watson: Yeah, but you’re not gonna like it.

[00:09:54] Kyle Jetsel: Okay.

[00:09:55] Cameron Watson: We’ve already talked about some of it and it’s stuff that I’ve told you. Well, I’ll never bring that up.

[00:10:01] Kyle Jetsel: Bring it up.

[00:10:04] Cameron Watson: Okay. It’s not good for man to be alone.

[00:10:10] Cameron Watson: There you go.

[00:10:17] Kyle Jetsel: Oh my goodness, Cameron. I expected a little more than that, but you know what hit you gotta hit me with what you gotta hit me with, don’t

[00:10:31] Cameron Watson: I guess I didn’t wanna, I don’t wanna go there

[00:10:34] Kyle Jetsel: you?

[00:10:35] Cameron Watson: this is.

[00:10:40] Cameron Watson: Because you know, when, when we went to Florida together after Shelly passed and we were talking about things, you know, I, in my mind, I tried to put myself into what it would be like, and I tried to shift from compassion to empathy so I could kind of understand. And it was so overwhelmingly scary. It was so brutal.

[00:11:07] Cameron Watson: I couldn’t do it. And so I, I kind of soft, you know, it basically, you know, people are introspective until it hurts, right?

[00:11:16] Kyle Jetsel: Yep.

[00:11:16] Kyle Jetsel: Yep.

[00:11:17] Cameron Watson: it hurt. And so I stopped. I was like, uh, no, I can’t do that. And we, we talked about, uh, people’s lack of judgment. Right when trying to set people up because they don’t understand and they don’t know, and they don’t, there’s a lot of reasons, but for me, it comes down to two things.

[00:11:40] Cameron Watson: One, they are not aware enough to, to recognize now’s not the right time, or two, they’re just so unhinged that you wouldn’t, it wouldn’t matter if it was the right time or not. Right. Both disqualify it as an option, and then I started thinking for myself. I was like, well, I think I would seek companionship.

[00:12:05] Cameron Watson: And then over the, the next year as I thought about it and what that would be like, I realized I probably couldn’t do it. Not, not like I, it, it would be too big of a, a movie called The Bridge Too Far or have you seen it? It’s an oldie.

[00:12:26] Kyle Jetsel: No, I haven’t.

[00:12:28] Cameron Watson: So here the concept is that, um, if you’re gonna take a position, you have to be able to support that position with supply lines, right?

[00:12:37] Cameron Watson: And you can only, you can only get to, you can only take a position as strong as your supply line is. And this movie is all about this process. And then they took a bridge, but they weren’t able to reinforce it and supply it, and it was a bridge too far. And so they ended up losing not just the bridge that they had taken, but some really key, um, movie stars that were portraying act, you know, the characters.

[00:13:07] Cameron Watson: But no, they, they lost the, the, they lost what they had gained because it was a bridge too far. And for me, as I thought about it, I realized it was a bridge too far for me to be able to go to. To that,

[00:13:27] Kyle Jetsel: Hmm.

[00:13:27] Cameron Watson: I wouldn’t, I couldn’t get there. I, I wouldn’t have enough support internally to be able to cross that line.

[00:13:35] Cameron Watson: And that’s not a reflection on my, um, unwillingness. It’s a reflection on the, the very thought of trying to do something without Sara and having, I’m gonna use some of your words to have some of that joy and fun that’s brought about because of another person that, my, my mind rebels against that and my heart fleas.

[00:14:01] Kyle Jetsel: Right,

[00:14:02] Kyle Jetsel: right.

[00:14:02] Kyle Jetsel: You, yeah,

[00:14:03] Kyle Jetsel: you’re right. That’s exactly what happens. That that’s, you’ve hit the nail on the head. Right? That’s what’s happened to me is my. I, I, I can’t, well, you, you said it well, right? It’s a bridge too far, even when you’re forced to face the bridge too far,

[00:14:28] Kyle Jetsel: if that makes sense.

[00:14:29] Cameron Watson: Mm-Hmm?

[00:14:30] Kyle Jetsel: There isn’t, there isn’t the, the, resources. So what do you do? You know, you can’t just collapse and fall apart. Right. That’s not, that’s not acceptable. Right. I mean, that’s not acceptable for me personally. I I shouldn’t say that’s not acceptable, but I don’t, that’s not an option in my, in my, uh, resource book, I guess.

[00:14:53] Cameron Watson: Yeah,

[00:14:53] Kyle Jetsel: And I think that’s where, that, that might be where that 40% is like, holy crap, I’m extended too far. You know? And I guess what I’m trying to do is I’m trying to build some sort of resources without. That resource being a being what you.

[00:15:14] Cameron Watson: yeah. Do you, okay, I gotta tell this story. So Sara had a procedure done, um, a week ago or two weeks ago. And they, it, it wasn’t anything big, but they were gonna sedate her. And there’s always that risk. And I hate it because I get an anxious, and I get worried because I know people like yourself who have lost a spouse.

[00:15:37] Cameron Watson: And I just, you know, I dread it. And I know it’s not a faith, I know I’m not being faithful because I, I have so much fear and, you know, I recognize that, but it’s there. And I, anyway, and so afterwards, when she was doing really well, she came outta sedation, like better than she ever has before. And she’s had more experience with it than most people.

[00:16:02] Cameron Watson: And I was joking around about it. I was like, oh, I’m just so glad you’re, you’re doing well. And she goes, oh, were you nervous? I was like, yeah, I was. And we joked around what I would’ve done if she had passed away. And one of the funny options is that we were gonna, I. Move in with Kyle. was gonna become a roommate with Kyle

[00:16:25] Kyle Jetsel: That would be companionship, but probably not what you’re talking about. There’s probably

[00:16:30] Cameron Watson: Not, not that type, but, you know, that’s where I, that’s where my mind is, right? So that’s why I don’t wanna talk about the hard things ’cause it’s too hard.

[00:16:39] Kyle Jetsel: You know what I I, the word you said there, which I appreciated, was companionship. Right? And I’m, I’m gonna have to spend some time in that, in and figure out what that means to me. Right. And, and maybe it’s just having dinner with somebody and

[00:17:02] Kyle Jetsel: going home. Right.

[00:17:05] Cameron Watson: Yep.

[00:17:06] Kyle Jetsel: Maybe, maybe that’s, maybe that’s where I just need to open that door to that. I don’t, I don’t know. I’ll have to think through this. I’m thinking out loud right now, and that doesn’t even make me very comfortable right now

[00:17:19] Kyle Jetsel: in this moment. You know, it, it all seems terribly wrong. It all just

[00:17:25] Kyle Jetsel: seems terribly wrong.

[00:17:28] Cameron Watson: And you know, I, here’s, here’s one of the things I, so I have a, I have three daughters who are over the age of 20 and they are all welcoming the idea of, uh, eternal celestial marriage that they would love that one of them is closer than the other two. But I talked to them all about it, and one of the problems I’ve noticed is they keep getting in their own way because they know what the destination might be.

[00:18:00] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah.

[00:18:02] Cameron Watson: Sara’s given them some really good advice, and that’s to. To live in the middle. Not to live in the start and not to live in the destination, but to live in the current where, where they currently are and see what joy and what, um, I forget the word she used. She’s so good at things. Uh, I’m just gonna say to, to be able to pull as much goodness out of their current experience, even if they know that it’s not gonna work out for an eternity.

[00:18:38] Cameron Watson: ’cause you can have fun with someone without that type of commitment. I, I had a lot of first dates. I had more first dates than most people, Kyle in college as I was trying to find. I came home from the mission field. I was gonna be engaged within a year. That was my goal. And I knew I needed to date a lot, so I averaged six dates a week.

[00:19:06] Cameron Watson: Average. That means some weeks I did 10. But yeah, I, I, I was purposefully dating to, to find somebody that had the attributes that I found attractive. And was it a chore? Well, yeah, but it was very fun. Some of them went horribly. In fact, there was this one. Oh my goodness. Not a touchy-feely guy. Okay. But, um, I’m six eight, and this gal, uh, we’ll just say that she was probably six three.

[00:19:41] Cameron Watson: She was really tall and she was so excited to be on a date with a gentleman who was taller than her. Right. And we went to a dance, and I, I know how to dance. I don’t do the spin around in a circle. I waltz, I two step, I, I mean, I can even poke a, i I enjoy dancing, right? But she just wanted to bear hug and I get it.

[00:20:09] Cameron Watson: ’cause she, you know,

[00:20:11] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah.

[00:20:12] Cameron Watson: she never gets to bear hug and she wanted to be, um, a friend of mine, as I was telling her about this gal, I was like, I just can’t date her anymore. She couldn’t handle, I couldn’t, she would not disengage physically. And she goes, well, I just wanted to feel small and petite. She, she hadn’t felt that way.

[00:20:36] Cameron Watson: And since she was a little, you know, a little kid and her dad was spinning it around and I was like, ah, now, now make me feel even worse about how I treated her on the date. Because I kept saying, Hey, let’s waltz. I don’t bear hug. Uh, I’m not gonna give you a kiss. You know, I, she was, she wanted to feel a specific way.

[00:20:58] Cameron Watson: That was a horrible experience. And yet it was fun. And at the time I was like, wow, this is gonna be a story to tell. Which I rarely told that story, but of course now I’ve recorded it on YouTube. That’s awesome. But that, that, even that bad experience, I was able to pull a lot of fun and good things from.

[00:21:20] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah.

[00:21:20] Cameron Watson: And one of my best friends now is someone that I danced with all the time before I was married. And she’s, my wife has become really good friends with her. I get to see her every now and again and you know, it’s like, Hey, it’s good to see you. I, I could not, I couldn’t go back to that. In my mind, going back into that realm of where I was purposely dating, that’s, that just sounds horrible.

[00:21:52] Kyle Jetsel: You just, yeah, you just kind of hit the nail on the head right there. You just kind of, and what, here’s what you’ve made me consider. I, I need to think through some things, but, you know, living in the current, I think is a great idea and, and, and, pull goodness out of the current,

[00:22:12] Cameron Watson: Yeah, Sara’s, that’s Sara’s advice. She’s good.

[00:22:15] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah. Prior to, prior to getting married, I kind of did the same thing as you. I, I kind of had this thing that said, okay, we’re either gonna get married or break up. So if I know we’re not gonna get married, why delay the inevitable,

[00:22:32] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[00:22:32] Kyle Jetsel: right? And so I would say, you know, I don’t think this is gonna work out. And, and you know, I appreciate this, but I don’t think it’s gonna work out. And that left kind of a wake of unhappy people, right?

[00:22:48] Kyle Jetsel: Every time, everywhere Shelly and I went. There’d be waitresses or, I mean,

[00:22:54] Kyle Jetsel: there, there were, I was, I was indiscriminately dating. You know, the other thing, and, and it, and the whole idea of it to me now is, and if I was dating a girl, by the way, and another girl walked by and she got my attention, I kind of figured the girl I was dating probably wasn’t the one for me.

[00:23:12] Cameron Watson: Hmm.

[00:23:13] Kyle Jetsel: Right.

[00:23:14] Cameron Watson: Just chemically. So a girl walks by, chemical reaction happens and you go for an additional look of beauty.

[00:23:22] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah.

[00:23:23] Cameron Watson: you figure, well, if I’m able to be distracted by. That then the person I’m with must not be of

[00:23:31] Kyle Jetsel: And you know

[00:23:31] Kyle Jetsel: what? All that, all

[00:23:33] Kyle Jetsel: that changed when Shelly and I, Shelly and I started out as friends and we would go places together. She called me and say, Hey, I got tickets to Six Flags. I’m like, I’m in. And we’d go to Six Flags and have fun. And it was like two friends, right.

[00:23:47] Cameron Watson: Mm-Hmm.

[00:23:48] Kyle Jetsel: Call me and say, Hey, my, my dad just bought a big, two big old giant buckets of chicken. You know, you wanna come over and have some chicken with me? I’m like, yeah. Right. So a lot of the things we did, we probably dated for six months without even really, like any, I would say physical stuff. I mean, you know, holding hands or kissing or anything.

[00:24:12] Cameron Watson: Mm-Hmm.

[00:24:12] Kyle Jetsel: We just were friends and we were dating other people at the same time. But once, once I realized what was happening with her, I had tunnel vision and, and everybody else kind of disappeared. Right.

[00:24:25] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[00:24:26] Kyle Jetsel: And, and it’s a beautiful story, you know, and I think it’s the only story that could’ve worked for me, right. And so it’s, it’s hard for me to, Cameron, my, my choices now are a few, uh, I really like what you said, current. I can, I can go have dinner with somebody.

[00:24:47] Cameron Watson: Mm-Hmm,

[00:24:50] Kyle Jetsel: And being the current and extract fun and joy from that and just do that. And just being in the current and companionship, I, I think is the right word to start with, right

[00:25:04] Cameron Watson: can I ask you some hard questions?

[00:25:09] Cameron Watson: I, I, I, I gotta ask some hard questions. ’cause how, how do, because I thought about this way too much. My wife’s not even dead. and I This is

[00:25:25] Cameron Watson: how, how the world,

[00:25:26] Kyle Jetsel: every morning, pray to God and tell him how grateful you are. You know,

[00:25:33] Kyle Jetsel: some I have, I had people come to me and say, what can I do for you guys? And I’ve said, love your wife, man.

[00:25:42] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[00:25:43] Kyle Jetsel: Just go love your wife. what you could do for me, right? You can’t do anything for me.

[00:25:51] Cameron Watson: Mm-Hmm.

[00:25:51] Kyle Jetsel: man, you can do that for you.

[00:25:52] Kyle Jetsel: Go love on your wife. That, that, I don’t know that that’s for me, but if you get to do that, do that. Right. Sorry, Cameron, go ahead with your questions. ’cause

[00:26:11] Kyle Jetsel: I, by the

[00:26:11] Cameron Watson: in.

[00:26:12] Kyle Jetsel: you should know, you might ask me questions I haven’t considered because I’m an expert in focus on I’m an expert in keeping my mind off things that I don’t wanna keep my mind on.

[00:26:29] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[00:26:30] Kyle Jetsel: I am an expert because I know what it does. Right. And so I, there’s, you may ask me some questions I have not considered and I’m okay to consider. So go ahead, hit me with it. Tell and, and if they’re hard, ask me.

[00:26:44] Cameron Watson: Okay. So how, how can you even have a current enjoyable evening with all the implied pressure of dating a woman or going on a date or doing something with a woman who doesn’t, who you don’t know well enough to know what their motives are? Because when, when we’re young, we’re all in the same boat. And now I I, I have had sisters in-laws who have for various circumstances gone back into the dating pool.

[00:27:27] Cameron Watson: some of them were like, I’m just gonna have fun. I don’t want a relationship. I just need to get out there and have some enjoyment. And that’s cool. But then I’ve heard these stories, and I’m not saying that these were my sister-in-laws. Okay? These, which by the way, my sister-in-laws have found these wonderful men.

[00:27:51] Cameron Watson: That I adore and I am so impressed with. Okay. And my brother-in-Law, who found Ruth and my sister-in-Law, who found Ken and my sister-in-Law, who found Phil. They, they give me great hope that there is more out there than what I can perceive because I, they’ve gone through it. But how in the world do you date or go do something with someone, go to an activity where they might be like chomping at the bit ready for far more than just current fun and enjoyment.

[00:28:28] Cameron Watson: How do you communicate that so that they don’t get false expectations and think that, uh, an enjoyable evening doing something in a companionship like manner means something more because you’re nicer now than you were back when you were dating and leaving a trail of broken hearts in you’re wake.

[00:28:50] Kyle Jetsel: Uh, yeah, I’m probably, I probably am nicer. Um, I don’t, I don’t know the answer to that. I mean, I’m thinking out loud here. Do you, Cameron? I don’t want to take care of anybody else.

[00:29:08] Kyle Jetsel: Right.

[00:29:10] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[00:29:10] Kyle Jetsel: I took care of Shelly. She was my queen. I took care

[00:29:15] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[00:29:16] Kyle Jetsel: I wanted to, I wanted to serve her. I want, right. I don’t really wanna do that with anybody else. You know, my, I don’t even want a dog. My kids are like, can we get a dog? I’m like, no. Why not? ’cause I’ll have to take care of it. I don’t even wanna take care of a dog much less of another person. Right.

[00:29:36] Cameron Watson: Mm-Hmm.

[00:29:37] Kyle Jetsel: You know, and, and you know, and I remember Craig telling me, my brother Craig, who went. Through something similar dating. He said, my options are a woman who’s been divorced and probably has a big old load of baggage. A woman who’s a widower, or widow. I don’t know the difference. I still don’t know what I am. I, you know,

[00:30:04] Cameron Watson: widower,

[00:30:05] Kyle Jetsel: I don’t really, yeah, I guess I’ll forget. See,

[00:30:08] Kyle Jetsel: you see how I keep my mind off stuff that I don’t, that doesn’t, it’s not productive.

[00:30:12] Kyle Jetsel: I just keep my mind.

[00:30:14] Cameron Watson: let it go. Doesn’t matter. Yeah.

[00:30:16] Kyle Jetsel: A week from now I won’t know what I am. That’s my other option. The third option is somebody who’s never been married.

[00:30:23] Cameron Watson: And then the question is, why weren’t they married?

[00:30:26] Kyle Jetsel: You just hit the nail on the head. That’s what he said. And I, and by the way, I haven’t thought through this, but I remember him saying this, and now that you’re, you know that we’re talking about it, I’m thinking through it too. Right. I also, you know, my wife and I, when, when somebody we knew got divorced, we had this thing where we would refocus on each other, but we would also, she would call the wife and I would call the husband, not right away, but down the road, and just kind of we’re curious what happened.

[00:31:05] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[00:31:06] Kyle Jetsel: Right. And the guy’s perspective was always dramatically different than the girl’s perspective. Right?

[00:31:14] Kyle Jetsel: Very rarely, I would say 10% of the time. So you can tell, we’ve, we’ve seen a lot of divorces, right?

[00:31:23] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[00:31:24] Kyle Jetsel: of the time they would, I mean, they would take responsibility, either one of them.

[00:31:31] Kyle Jetsel: The rest of the time there was, there was no responsibility taken, you know what I’m saying? But it was, it was a great, uh, tool for my wife and I, because we could. I could tell her what he said, she could tell me what. Right. And it was, it was a great way for us to communicate. And obviously there’s differences the way men and women communicate and

[00:31:51] Kyle Jetsel: they’re, and they have different perceptions of the same situation. But it also made me a little bit, well, it, it didn’t just make me closer to Shelly, but it made me more fearful of humans in relationships.

[00:32:10] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[00:32:12] Kyle Jetsel: I remember one time my son told me, ’cause you know when your sons get married, 50% of marriages end in divorce. Right.

[00:32:20] Cameron Watson: Right.

[00:32:20] Kyle Jetsel: So it’s scary. And my son told me, dad, 50% of marriages stay together. Right. That’s what he told me. And I said,

[00:32:30] Kyle Jetsel: man, I’m so glad you said that. What a beautiful thing to say. Right.

[00:32:35] Cameron Watson: It is. Yeah.

[00:32:36] Kyle Jetsel: what a wise thing for a young man to say to his dad. Right. I think, I think part of it is I had spent so much time talking to these individuals who had gone through these divorces that it, I don’t know, I kind of lost faith a little bit, you know, in, in, others. And so that, I’m just sharing with you where, where I’m at, right? I don’t wanna take care of anybody else.

[00:33:02] Kyle Jetsel: You can’t, I can’t replace Shelly.

[00:33:05] Cameron Watson: Nope.

[00:33:06] Kyle Jetsel: You know, I don’t really want to, my family, we get together at least once a week and all my kids are here. We have so much fun. don’t wanna bring anybody else into that with an outsider, you know, for a couple

[00:33:22] Kyle Jetsel: of reasons. What if they mess it up? What if

[00:33:25] Cameron Watson: Yep.

[00:33:27] Kyle Jetsel: or you know, I, my family’s a little off in how we talk and do things and it’s acceptable and you know how silly we are and nothing’s off limits. So I don’t really want anybody judging me or my, you know, there’s all these things, Cameron, that I’m thinking through right now. They’re, know,

[00:33:52] Cameron Watson: Yeah. Okay,

[00:33:53] Cameron Watson: so now I’ve asked the, the negative type questions, right. By the way, it right now, uh, 43% of first marriages end in separation or divorce within 15 years. So it’s less than 50% for first time marriages.

[00:34:12] Cameron Watson: Um, I have relatives who have totally blown the stats because, you know, they’ve been married and divorced, you know, like six, seven times.

[00:34:22] Cameron Watson: So

[00:34:23] Kyle Jetsel: I do

[00:34:23] Kyle Jetsel: too.

[00:34:24] Cameron Watson: like, let, let’s just count the first one. ’cause that’s the one that,

[00:34:28] Kyle Jetsel: So

[00:34:29] Kyle Jetsel: that’s what, that’s 57%. My first

[00:34:34] Kyle Jetsel: marriage is state. Okay.

[00:34:36] Cameron Watson: Yeah. Are still married

[00:34:38] Kyle Jetsel: That’s good. I, that number I, that it’s higher than, than the middle. That makes.

[00:34:43] Cameron Watson: Yeah. Okay. So here’s the cool part about living in the moment or being living currently. The, the way that Sara describes it, the way she talks to my, my daughters about it, is it. When you in, when you do something with someone and you have that shared experience, you now have a shared experience to decide whether or not that’s something you want to do again or not.

[00:35:15] Cameron Watson: And you don’t have to let them be exposed to your entire being. And for our family, we have eight kids. We’re, you know, you are playful and fun. We are so musical, it’s disgusting. My brother Eric used to say, I hate musicals. I was like, I love musicals. Why do you hate musicals? He is like, because we’re in real life when people just break out into song.

[00:35:46] Cameron Watson: Um, I married into my wife’s family that they break out into song and no, that song we sang for Christmas. Carolyn, at your place? The, the last one, the, it was the Christmas, um. Whatever. They wrote that in the car on the way over. They’re like, Hey, let’s just write a different one. I was like, okay. And they do it.

[00:36:12] Cameron Watson: They, you know, I participate by making a Gumby, but we don’t expose people to the uniqueness of our family’s musical ability because it’s just overwhelming. We don’t just say, Hey, it’s good to meet you. Hey, now let’s do a musical together.

[00:36:30] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah.

[00:36:30] Cameron Watson: not something we do. We don’t have to. We can lead ’em into it and see how comfortable they are before we totally expose ’em, give them a taste, see if they like it.

[00:36:40] Cameron Watson: And so far, the guys who my daughters have introduced to the family, they seem to really enjoy the fact that there’s always music being practiced or played or created in our home. It is constant. There’s not a day that goes by without something musical happening. And it’s, it, I I have noise canceling headphones because it it, people say, oh, that sounds so wonderful.

[00:37:09] Cameron Watson: It is not.

[00:37:10] Cameron Watson: It is the loudest screeches and scratches of stringed instruments. And the same notes being played on the piano while they figure out the words or the lyric or the right melody to songs over and over again. The process is painful, but the results are impressive when you don’t see the whole mess being created.

[00:37:32] Cameron Watson: So when, when you, you’re look, when you’re experience, you’re share having a shared experience with someone, you can decide whether you want to do that again and perhaps do something more. There’s nothing that says that after you go out and you have a a, a dinner together that you have to do again, and you don’t have to bring ’em home to your family.

[00:37:57] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah. You just, you, yeah. I think you’re, you’re helping me through this, Cameron. Yeah. You’re helping me through this. I, I just wrote down here, here’s where I think I’m at and I’ve already made, and I’ve already made a plan. So, know the story of the, when I was working for my brother, I don’t know if you know this story or not, but I’ll share it with you. So I walk, uh, whenever we had a difficult client. I would walk into his office and say, here’s the situation. And he would ask me, what are you gonna do? And I would tell him, and he would guide me with his knowledge of his business and you know,

[00:38:44] Cameron Watson: Sure

[00:38:44] Kyle Jetsel: and he would say, consider this, consider that, consider this.

[00:38:47] Kyle Jetsel: And he would, he was basically training me to kind of take over things for him with client management, basically. Well, I went into his office one day, and this wasn’t his client, but this was his partner at the time. And his partner was difficult.

[00:39:03] Cameron Watson: I remember that guy.

[00:39:04] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah. So I walked into his office and I said, here’s what’s going on.

[00:39:07] Kyle Jetsel: He said, what are you gonna do? And I said, well, if I do this, he’s gonna do this. And if I do this, he’s gonna do this. And he says, well, that sounds pessimistic. And I said, well, I’m not a pessimist. I’m a realist. I know the guy. I’ve worked with him a long time. I know who he is. And he said, well, that’s what pessimists call themselves.

[00:39:25] Kyle Jetsel: They call themselves realists. It made me

[00:39:28] Kyle Jetsel: mad, right?

[00:39:30] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[00:39:30] Kyle Jetsel: So I went out and bought a book called, uh, the Power of Positive Thinking or something like that, I think that’s the name of it. And I said, I don’t like that. I’m, you know, I wanna be an optimist, right?

[00:39:43] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[00:39:43] Kyle Jetsel: I, I wasn’t optim. And, and you know, me, I’m a pretty optimistic in most areas,

[00:39:48] Cameron Watson: Sure.

[00:39:48] Kyle Jetsel: I think I’m, but I also think I, you know, we framed things in a certain way.

[00:39:54] Kyle Jetsel: And I had framed this guy in a certain way, right?

[00:39:57] Cameron Watson: Sure. Mm-Hmm?

[00:39:59] Kyle Jetsel: And so I went and read the book and a week later I was back in his office talking about somebody else. And he said, there you go, being a pessimist again. And it really made me mad ’cause I said, I’ve read the book,

[00:40:11] Cameron Watson: Yeah,

[00:40:13] Kyle Jetsel: how, how I read the book. I’m an, I’m an optimist. And that was when I realized I needed to break the book down. There was 10 lessons. So in week one, I took lesson one and I made a worksheet. You know me in worksheets.

[00:40:26] Cameron Watson: sure. Yeah.

[00:40:27] Kyle Jetsel: And I focused on that one component for a week. week. two, I did lesson two, week three. After week four, I was in his office one day and he said, you’re cha, something’s going on, man.

[00:40:37] Kyle Jetsel: What’s going on? I said, what? He said, your, your and approach is different. And I said, oh, here’s what I’m doing. I’m, I’ve taken this book that I read, and you still called me out. I hadn’t internalized it, and this is helping me internalize these principles. And by the way, that was a big part of my working through challenges in my own home is, is creating worksheets, writing things down, which I, I’ve got a half page of notes right now.

[00:41:05] Kyle Jetsel: I will be writing more stuff down and creating a worksheet in this avenue. But I think what I probably need to do is my framework. You know, Shelly and I created a 1% happy marriage.

[00:41:18] Cameron Watson: Mm-Hmm.

[00:41:20] Kyle Jetsel: I can see other 1% happy marriages. When I walk around and I see couples together, I can see ’em, right? Because I’m, but they’re few and far between. That’s why it’s called a 1% happy marriage.

[00:41:34] Cameron Watson: Yep.

[00:41:34] Kyle Jetsel: And when I see ’em, I tell ’em, I’ll say something to ’em just because it makes me feel good right?

[00:41:43] Cameron Watson: Mm-Hmm.

[00:41:43] Kyle Jetsel: to go to people and say, Hey, I see you guys feel about each other and it’s beautiful and it makes me feel good. And it doesn’t hurt them either, obviously. Right.

[00:41:55] Cameron Watson: Yeah. Yep.

[00:41:56] Kyle Jetsel: But that means 99% is not the 1%. Right.

[00:42:01] Cameron Watson: It’s true.

[00:42:01] Kyle Jetsel: so, uh, my framework of the world is of the 99%, right. And statistically, I felt that’s one thing, that’s one area where I felt unique and different, and I. I, and so my framework of dating and all this stuff is the 99%, right?

[00:42:24] Kyle Jetsel: Because you see a lot of people out there that don’t, just don’t seem happy. They just don’t. And, and I, you know, obviously I’m not, I’m not saying I read everybody perfectly, right? But you you know what I’m saying? Yeah. And

[00:42:36] Kyle Jetsel: I’m, and I’m not, I’m not, I’m not judgmental of them. I just, you know, I’m, so, I really need to change. I think what I need to do is go grab my, my book, I know where it’s at, the same book, and I think I need to focus on that in that area, right? Read it with that purpose, with the purpose of companionship in mind. And because I know if I don’t do that, I’ll go into every, everything with a realistic. Approach, which is what you know, which is what, uh, pessimists call themselves

[00:43:16] Cameron Watson: right?

[00:43:17] Kyle Jetsel: of going into it with an optimistic approach.

[00:43:18] Kyle Jetsel: And I, and I also, and I’ll go back to when Shelly and I were dating, I had a, a big wall built around myself. I’ll share a story with you. I dated a girl in high school who was a really sweet girl. for whatever reason, it didn’t, you know, you know how high high school dating is, right? I mean, you go different ways. All, all kinds of different things happen.

[00:43:42] Kyle Jetsel: Well, I ended up dating her a couple years after high school, and she said to me, you’re, you’re so different. You don’t let, I can tell you, don’t let anybody get close to you. You don’t let anybody, you’ve built up a, a wall around yourself. And she said, you’re not letting me get close like you did in high school.

[00:44:03] Cameron Watson: Hmm.

[00:44:06] Kyle Jetsel: And she said, what happened? And I said, I, I, I didn’t realize that, you know,

[00:44:13] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[00:44:14] Kyle Jetsel: but what Shelly did was she broke through my wall in a very natural way. She didn’t, she didn’t come to me and say, I, I’m getting inside your wall. She just did, she just broke down all the barriers.

[00:44:32] Kyle Jetsel: Right. And that’s kind of when I knew, uh, she was, that’s kind of when I knew, wait a minute, I’m acting different around her right than anybody else. I’m careful what I say. I’m, you know, she’s different. And so,

[00:44:51] Kyle Jetsel: and maybe that’s the same approach I need to take her, is just to go into this thing and say, I am who I am. not, nobody’s gonna be Shelly. And that’s okay. I need to allow the opportunity for companionship. And then just if somebody does break down walls, they break down walls.

[00:45:10] Kyle Jetsel: If they don’t, they don’t. Right. I mean, maybe

[00:45:12] Kyle Jetsel: that’s the, and again, I, I don’t, I wouldn’t say I was mean to, to people or to girls prior to Shelly. I was just more matter of fact.

[00:45:20] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[00:45:21] Kyle Jetsel: And I don’t think I would do that now. I, I couldn’t see myself doing that now, you know?

[00:45:27] Kyle Jetsel: But,

[00:45:29] Cameron Watson: yeah.

[00:45:30] Kyle Jetsel: uh, it, it’s, it’s a tricky, you know, complicated. You know, me, Cameron, I’m a sim, I’m a simple-minded guy. I want it to be simple, but complicated. Challenges require complicated solutions.

[00:45:45] Cameron Watson: because it’s involving humans.

[00:45:47] Kyle Jetsel: I’m trying to simplify it down to real simple things here.

[00:45:51] Cameron Watson: Yeah. So I gotta tell you about my seminary teacher that I, okay, so you talk about fun. The, this seminary teacher was so awesome. He used to work at a convenience store to, um, make ends meet. Right? So he was teaching seminary, he was actually the principal of our seminary at Meridian High. Uh, his first name was Craig.

[00:46:15] Cameron Watson: Uh, so, uh, he invited me, Chad, and Barry, uh, good friends that, and he’s like, Hey, I wanna do a practical joke on these ladies who deliver the sandwiches in the morning. And we’re like, okay. He goes, so I want you to rob, Rob me with them in the store.

[00:46:38] Cameron Watson: can you, so I’m a six foot eight fairly athletic guy. Barry and Chad have, you know, they’re, we get bandanas over our faces and we hide in, wait for them to come into the store and then we have big knives and we rob him and he’s just laughing, you know, just fun loving guy. Right. That’s my perception of him just and.

[00:47:04] Cameron Watson: Just an amazing example of fun paired with purposeful living. And he was in my stake growing up. And then, uh, after I graduated, he stopped being a seminary teacher and I didn’t know what was going on, but he moved to Idaho Falls or Twin Falls or someone, one of the falls. And so when I was passing through on business, I contacted him.

[00:47:32] Cameron Watson: I said, Hey, can I come visit? And I go and I visit. And my entire exposure to him prior to this was, uh, seminary teacher teaching religion, fun outside of seminary, willing when I broke, okay. Just to tell you what type of guy he is. When I broke my leg and came home from the mission field for three months.

[00:48:00] Cameron Watson: He came to visit me with a box full of church educational system videos and said, I know you can’t do much. ’cause back then, if you were home from a mission and you got released, you could not go back. So I was not released as a missionary. I had to follow the missionary rules and he brought me a box of videos and said, you might wanna pay special attention to these ones with Hugh Nibley.

[00:48:27] Cameron Watson: They’re great. Right.

[00:48:29] Cameron Watson: And on every cassette tape, it was like CES use only. And he just brought me these church educational system videos and I watched him. He, he didn’t just, he, he wasn’t just, uh, you know, teach and forget it. He was involved in his students’ lives. So it was, it was really natural for me to reach out to him and, and go visit him.

[00:48:56] Cameron Watson: He then shared his story about, uh, the way that his life was impacted and he had gotten remarried and it was so funny to hear them talk about how they ended up together. And it was the most bizarre story ever, and I’m not gonna even try, and I’m, I’ll reach out to him and see if I can get him, if he has a recording of it or something.

[00:49:23] Cameron Watson: But after they were married, they, they were invited to go speak to a single adult conference. And so they’re, they’re gonna show up and the title of their, the, the subject of the bulletin that was handed out or whatever, it basically said Craig and his wife. Are going to speak to us and it can happen to you two

[00:49:50] Cameron Watson: And it was like, he’s like, what? What is that? That’s like pressure

[00:49:56] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:49:57] Cameron Watson: it’s a bizarre story, you know? Anyway, it’s a wonderful story and I hope, I hope I can get him to share it again because it, it was such a miraculous story of one thing happening, another thing happening, and an oblivious person and someone who knew what was going on and coming together.

[00:50:18] Cameron Watson: Right? And I cannot imagine a better example of someone who is fun-loving, cares deeply about the gospel, but also. Wants to make sure that it’s gonna be the right thing with the right person. And not wanting that, that pressure of having to perform and be not a fake Kyle or a fake Craig, but just to, to, to not have to be on their ultra best behavior, which isn’t maintainable, but to be real with someone.

[00:51:03] Cameron Watson: And I’m gonna reach out to him and just find out, because if he has it, recorded it, if nothing else, you’ll get a big kick out of it. ’cause it’s so funny.

[00:51:11] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah.

[00:51:13] Cameron Watson: if not, it’s, you know, it’s all good. Anyway. But I, I hope you document your experiences because good, bad, or ugly. I, I bet you it’s gonna help a lot of other people in the same way that you went to people after Shelly passed and we’re like, Hey, how’d you, how’d you keep your family together?

[00:51:35] Cameron Watson: How, how did their kids handle things? Because they’re probably gonna come to you and say, okay, how in the world do you start to open yourself up to stuff? I do have a question for you.

[00:51:50] Kyle Jetsel: Okay.

[00:51:52] Cameron Watson: What were you thinking? What did what? What did you think I was gonna say when you were asking me the questions as we started out?

[00:52:05] Kyle Jetsel: I had absolutely zero idea.

[00:52:10] Cameron Watson: Really?

[00:52:11] Kyle Jetsel: Zero idea, and that’s not really like me. I’m usually, I, I, I think this is the issue, Cameron. I write my life story.

[00:52:25] Cameron Watson: Yeah. I.

[00:52:27] Kyle Jetsel: You know, I, I write, I’m thoughtful in how, uh, I want things to go. You know what I’m saying? And one of the toughest things for me is. This is not how I wrote it at all.

[00:52:51] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[00:52:52] Kyle Jetsel: And my story was beautiful. You know what I’m saying?

[00:52:58] Kyle Jetsel: I mean, you know, for the first little bit after Shelly passed away, I couldn’t see happy older couples.

[00:53:04] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[00:53:05] Kyle Jetsel: couldn’t see them. I would turn away and walk away mad. ’cause that was my story. Right. And it’s, it’s, uh, I think that’s the challenge for me is my, is I don’t know what my story is now.

[00:53:20] Kyle Jetsel: Right. I, I don’t, and I, and I can’t, I don’t want to write it without Shelly. I don’t wanna write it without Shelly. I almost wanna write it. I almost wanna write it as a guy who was so in love with his wife that he just expresses love to her. By serving his kids and playing out the string. Right. You’ve heard me, I think you’ve heard me use that term. Hey, I’m playing out the string. And that, that, I think that’s the story I’ve subconsciously written since her passing. None of it feels right. You know what I’m saying? It still doesn’t feel right when I have to go up to my room without her. I got a king-sized bed up there, You know what I’m saying? I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s the, the story that I’ve written was just so beautiful and, you know, and I, and I think so much of my life, I’ve written these stories and, and basically work to make them happen, right? And I don’t wanna write that story. And I don’t like being, I don’t like the world deciding what my story is. I don’t, I don’t want, you know what I’m saying?

[00:54:51] Cameron Watson: Yeah, I do

[00:54:52] Kyle Jetsel: I, and I realize what that is. I realize that’s a control thing. I realize, you know, I’m trying to control what I can, and I, and I know I can’t control anybody but me, but dadgumit, if I’m, if I do what I think I’m supposed to, and, and I project what I want, and I work at it hard enough, you know, I, I can make a lot of stuff happen and I can’t get Shelly back,

[00:55:15] Cameron Watson: Hmm.

[00:55:18] Kyle Jetsel: you know, so it’s, it’s disheartening and it’s, um, you know what the word, I think that the word I think I was trying to find earlier was melancholy, right? I’m

[00:55:31] Kyle Jetsel: 60% happy and 40% me melancholy.

[00:55:35] Cameron Watson: Yeah, that’s a good word.

[00:55:36] Kyle Jetsel: I don’t, I don’t allow myself to fall into state of depression. I don’t, and I’m not saying other people can do this, but I’m, I’ve been blessed with some, with

[00:55:46] Kyle Jetsel: some things that, yeah, I’ve been blessed with some resiliency. I realize that. So I don’t, but I can’t, I can’t not be melancholy. Sometimes I can’t. Right. She, she provided so much joy to my life that it’s just like ripping away a, you know, giant piece of you. And so it’s, it’s tricky. It’s, it’s a, it’s a,

[00:56:10] Cameron Watson: Can I give you some counsel?

[00:56:12] Kyle Jetsel: you can, I’d love that Cameron.

[00:56:16] Cameron Watson: So as you start this out, treat it like an experiment. Don’t expect it to go any particular way, but just find out what’s gonna happen. And here’s the council part. re no matter what it is, gonna be different than what you had with Shelly. It’s impossible for you to capture what you had with Shelly again, because you’re a different person you were than you were back then, and no one is like she is now.

[00:56:54] Cameron Watson: And the second piece of that is “different is, okay”,

[00:57:05] Cameron Watson: so don’t put the standards up of this is what it’s supposed to be because you don’t know, you’ve never done this before. Whoever you go out and have a meal with or go to a movie with or do whatever activity, activity is it is that you do, you’ll have never done that before with that person. And until afterwards you won’t know what it’s supposed to be.

[00:57:32] Kyle Jetsel: Right. Yeah.

[00:57:34] Cameron Watson: So just let it, let those false expectations go away and recognize that what you have with Shelly was 1 0 1 in whatever the population of the earth has been until now. Not what it is now, but like all people, all time to now and all people from here forward. It’s one in all of that. ’cause she was unique and you were different than you are now and you guys grew together and that

[00:58:09] Cameron Watson: can’t be duplicated.

[00:58:10] Kyle Jetsel: Right. That’s good. That’s good counsel. I think, I think I’m gonna couple that counsel with, um, grabbing that book and trying to reframe the whole situation. What I don’t wanna do is go into this with. Thinking that everybody I talk to is, is the 99% You know what I’m saying? That’s not gonna help

[00:58:30] Kyle Jetsel: me at all. That’s not gonna help me at all. And you know me,

[00:58:34] Kyle Jetsel: I’m,

[00:58:34] Cameron Watson: what you, you know what you could do? Seek the 1% within the other person because even though they’re not, you know, together, you’re not gonna make the be the 1% together. They have the 1% in them. And if you’re looking for that, then if nothing else, it just makes them feel better about themselves as you help identify and say, Hey, you know what?

[00:59:02] Cameron Watson: Attribute, this is good, which you have, I. Now I’m gonna go somewhere else because the rest of you is not what I’m looking for.

[00:59:14] Kyle Jetsel: I don’t think this is gonna work out.

[00:59:16] Cameron Watson: I don’t think this is gonna work out. Yeah.

[00:59:19] Kyle Jetsel: dude. I don’t

[00:59:19] Kyle Jetsel: wanna do this, man. I so badly, Cameron. I just

[00:59:26] Kyle Jetsel: don’t

[00:59:26] Cameron Watson: what’s gonna happen. I’m gonna go in and I’m gonna talk to Sara about this episode and she’s gonna be, she’s gonna be shocked that we had the conversation.

[00:59:37] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah.

[00:59:38] Kyle Jetsel: And I

[00:59:38] Cameron Watson: I shut her

[00:59:39] Kyle Jetsel: I might as

[00:59:40] Cameron Watson: so many times.

[00:59:41] Kyle Jetsel: since we’re having this conversation, by the way, you’re not the only guy whose wife has, I’ve been approached by a lot of men who said, my wife sent me over here, and I said, go back and tell her, no, I

[00:59:56] Kyle Jetsel: know what this is about. And I’ve, and I’ve, I’ve even told them, I might have told you this. Go back and tell your wife. I was terribly offended too, so that she doesn’t send you over

[01:00:06] Kyle Jetsel: here. And

[01:00:07] Cameron Watson: won’t bring it up anymore, so.

[01:00:10] Kyle Jetsel: so, I guess, uh, you know, I, I, one of the things that I share with people, so I do podcasts on. Grief with

[01:00:23] Kyle Jetsel: grief pretty regularly now. And one of the things I share with people is, uh, don’t wait to get started. Right. If, don’t wait until you overcome the grief before you get started moving forward.

[01:00:40] Cameron Watson: Mm-Hmm?

[01:00:40] Kyle Jetsel: And so I’m gonna, I don’t even wanna say this out loud, but I’ll say it out loud. Yeah. I guess I’m, I’m okay. Maybe going to dinner. Golly, that’s just bad. That’s

[01:00:58] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[01:00:59] Kyle Jetsel: so tell, I guess tell your wife that there has

[01:01:04] Kyle Jetsel: to be

[01:01:04] Cameron Watson: well, the way I’m gonna phrase it is, Hey, I just talked to Kyle and he’s open to the possibility that someday he might be more willing to look at the options of possibly going out to dinner with someone

[01:01:18] Kyle Jetsel: that,

[01:01:18] Kyle Jetsel: that’s a better way to say it. Yeah.

[01:01:22] Cameron Watson: it’s not gonna be

[01:01:23] Kyle Jetsel: that’s gonna with a woman that slings the door wide open. I know what you’re saying. Cameron

[01:01:27] Kyle Jetsel: what she’s gonna hear. What

[01:01:29] Kyle Jetsel: she’s gonna hear is different from what you said,

[01:01:33] Cameron Watson: And what’s funny is, I know, I know who she’s thinking of

[01:01:39] Kyle Jetsel: Oh no.

[01:01:40] Cameron Watson: in general,

[01:01:42] Kyle Jetsel: Okay. You know what, I’m stepping

[01:01:43] Kyle Jetsel: in and I’m gonna take your counsel, Cameron,

[01:01:47] Cameron Watson: and she, my wife has excellent taste in people who would enjoy going out. And socializing with someone without that overbearing expectation of, well, we’ve gone out three times. When are you, when are we gonna be engaged?

[01:02:09] Kyle Jetsel: this

[01:02:09] Kyle Jetsel: scares the crap out me,

[01:02:12] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[01:02:16] Kyle Jetsel: you. Shelly broke through it and she just brought out the, but I have a dark side. You know, I, there’s all these things going through my mind now that I haven’t even considered, you know, I know who I’m at my core, you know the, yeah, it’s tricky, man. As you can, you know, it’s tricky.

[01:02:44] Cameron Watson: Oh yeah, it is. And then the questions that I go to next is, okay, do you talk to your kids? About this conversation and let them know what you’re gonna do, because I know Alec and, um, oh my goodness. Yeah.

[01:03:06] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah.

[01:03:07] Cameron Watson: Their perspective is gonna be far different than Jack and Chloe’s.

[01:03:11] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah.

[01:03:12] Cameron Watson: So it’s got, you know, wow. How do you cross that bridge?

[01:03:18] Cameron Watson: But then again, I look at your daughter who’s such a sweet,

[01:03:21] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah.

[01:03:22] Cameron Watson: a lovely young woman, and I bet you she’d have some wonderful advice for you.

[01:03:27] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah. Yeah. She probably would. Well, you, you might be surprised at how my kids tease me a lot about a lot of things. That’s kind of the relationship we have.

[01:03:40] Cameron Watson: what are you, ki your kids tease you.

[01:03:44] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah. I’m the butt of most of the jokes. Yeah. But it’s funny too, they say stuff sometimes it’s over the line, and

[01:03:53] Kyle Jetsel: they look at me and I look at them and they think that was over the line. And then later on they’ll say, I’m sorry, that was over the line, . I don’t like to say. And I’ll say, well, you

[01:04:04] Kyle Jetsel: slammed up pretty hard on that one. Right. But yeah, I, I’m, my problem now is I’m not, is, I’m not there. You know what though? I’ve gotta, I’ve gotta just, I, I don’t need to wait. I guess is, that’s my advice to individuals who are struggling through, is don’t wait to get active in, in

[01:04:28] Kyle Jetsel: facing this stuff.

[01:04:29] Kyle Jetsel: You know?

[01:04:35] Cameron Watson: Hmm.

[01:04:36] Kyle Jetsel: Now, now I feel like I gotta apologize to Shelly. You know? I still feel married. It’s, it’s a

[01:04:46] Kyle Jetsel: tricky deal. It’s a tricky deal,

[01:04:48] Cameron Watson: it is tricky for those who don’t know the covenant that you made. Was forever, not till death. So some people out there, they’ll, they’ll be sitting there going, well man, she’s, she’s passed away. Move on. But in our belief system, you’re still sealed to her. You’re still married for time and eternity. So that’s a, that’s a whole nother to have to figure out.

[01:05:20] Cameron Watson: But I can’t help but think of. Well see. And honestly, my memories of Shelly are very few. My interactions with her were not, uh, yeah. Sara and I actually, we were at a. Uh, we were driving by a Mexican restaurant and we were like, Hey, we went to that Mexican restaurant with Shelly and Kyle. And I was like, yeah, I think that’s the only reason I liked that restaurant is ’cause of who we were with when we went there.

[01:06:00] Cameron Watson: And then I realized how few things we did as a couple as couples, and uh, that’s just, it’s not something we can fix. But in my mind, the way that you talk about her, I imagine that she would also have some advice for you and I bet you it would be really good advice.

[01:06:28] Cameron Watson: She’d probably take one of your, um, worksheets and fill it out and not ever tell you. And then you’d have to find it later.

[01:06:38] Cameron Watson: I.

[01:06:44] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah, I’ve gotta, I, I need to do some reframing here ’cause I don’t want to do this.

[01:06:52] Cameron Watson: Yeah,

[01:06:53] Kyle Jetsel: I just don’t want to for

[01:06:56] Kyle Jetsel: so many reasons.

[01:06:56] Cameron Watson: you. And if you don’t do it, I’m, I’m not gonna hold, I’m not

[01:07:03] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah, I know.

[01:07:05] Kyle Jetsel: I.

[01:07:07] Cameron Watson: I’m shocked that when, as you’re talking and in my head, the thing that I was, I don’t wanna go here and I’m shocked that we went there.

[01:07:20] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah, well that’s, that, uh, that’s that line, Cameron, that, uh, yeah, you’re not the first, uh, you’re not, you might’ve been the first to, no, you weren’t the first to say something to me about it. There’s another guy I, I really respect. His name is Jeremy, and, you know, three or four months afterwards we were talking and he says, Hey, my wife has been, and I think it’s a good idea, Kyle, this guy Jeremy said this. I said, dude, it’s been three months. If you were close to me, I would smack you right now. He said, that’s why I’m not close to you right now. That’s why I’m doing this on the phone. But you need to hear it. And I said, you know, I’m tempted to drive over there and smack you anyway. And he said, I know I won’t be here.

[01:08:09] Kyle Jetsel: I’m not at home. Don’t try to find me. He knew, right? He, he knows

[01:08:14] Kyle Jetsel: the deep,

[01:08:18] Cameron Watson: Well, and I told you, was not going to bring it up.

[01:08:21] Kyle Jetsel: many many times since I’ve been by, by individuals who I respect have said this to me, you know, multiple times. But golly, it, it’s not, it’s not an easy thing, man.

[01:08:38] Cameron Watson: And that bodes well for your future. ’cause if it was an easy thing, what does that say?

[01:08:53] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah. It’s just not an easy thing, man.

[01:08:58] Kyle Jetsel: I am, I’m usually reasonably good at facing stuff, you know,

[01:09:07] Cameron Watson: I think, okay. So objectively though, looking at, so October 25th, what? What year, what, what? I’m sorry. When did she pass away?

[01:09:20] Kyle Jetsel: 2021, October of 2021,

[01:09:25] Cameron Watson: Okay, so October of 2021. And it’s now been two years and two months, and that was just the most awkward time for balloons to go up.

[01:09:39] Kyle Jetsel: that that added a little levity and I’m kind of, I’m kind of glad it did. We were getting a little deep there.

[01:09:44] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah.

[01:09:47] Cameron Watson: But, uh, objectively, I think, I think two years of mourning and grief and avoidance or whatever you want to call it, where it wasn’t, you weren’t willing to look at it as an option. I think that’s great.

[01:10:09] Kyle Jetsel: Well,

[01:10:09] Kyle Jetsel: and I think, you know, I think back to my dream,

[01:10:14] Cameron Watson: Mm-Hmm.

[01:10:15] Kyle Jetsel: I, I’m not a melancholy 40% of the time guy

[01:10:20] Cameron Watson: No, you’re not.

[01:10:22] Kyle Jetsel: and accepting that I had accepted it. And I, and you know, and I, and I was doing things like it’s been at a year, I remember saying to myself, if I can just do this another 20 years, I get to see her again. got this right. And at two years I said, all I gotta do is this, two years, another 10 times.

[01:10:49] Cameron Watson: Hmm.

[01:10:49] Kyle Jetsel: And, and I don’t wanna live beyond that.

[01:10:51] Kyle Jetsel: I, I don’t really want to. I don’t really wanna live beyond that age. I’m like counting down my existence.

[01:11:02] Cameron Watson: To where you get to live again, because you’re with her.

[01:11:05] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah, yeah. And, and I, I’m thinking that, and I think of the dream, waking up angry and, you know, in that dream thinking I had, you know, a month or two to live and it infuriating me

[01:11:25] Cameron Watson: Hmm

[01:11:26] Kyle Jetsel: of what I’m leaving behind and how I can’t take care of serve those people I love here. I, I think I’d been so wrapped up in, in that end result

[01:11:40] Cameron Watson: mm-Hmm.

[01:11:40] Kyle Jetsel: that it’s been affecting my ability to fully, uh, serve those here. You know, there are times when I’ve said I don’t, you know, my kids will be fine. I go tomorrow, they’ll figure it out. They’re resilient, you know, if they can handle it. That’s what I, I mean, that’s what I’ve been subconsciously, I mean, not subconsciously, even consciously telling myself, you know, they’re not the first ones that this has happened to. They’ll be fine. You know, I’m, I’m even got, I, I’d even gotten to the point where I wasn’t, I’m gonna be real raw here.

[01:12:25] Cameron Watson: Okay.

[01:12:28] Kyle Jetsel: I haven’t really been taking care of myself because I don’t really wanna live a long time. And if, and if it’s just natural, if I don’t take care of myself and it’s natural that I go, that’s not, that wasn’t bothering me. I know that seems super selfish, man, but.

[01:12:53] Cameron Watson: No,

[01:12:54] Cameron Watson: think think

[01:12:55] Kyle Jetsel: I don’t think people can grasp, you know, I don’t know that, I don’t think of myself as selfish,

[01:13:11] Cameron Watson: right.

[01:13:12] Kyle Jetsel: but I’ve been, but I’ve been, I mean, that, that melancholy, man, it’ll, it’s, I don’t think it’s me. I don’t think it’s who I need to be. Right.

[01:13:23] Kyle Jetsel: And that dream, that dream woke me up and it made me realize

[01:13:28] Kyle Jetsel: this, I can’t keep, I can’t keep living this way. ’cause this is, I can’t keep hoping that I go, you know, I can’t

[01:13:41] Kyle Jetsel: keep counting, I can’t keep counting down. ’cause when I was faced with it in the dream, it infuriated me.

[01:13:48] Cameron Watson: What a blessing.

[01:13:50] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah. My son is interesting ’cause he, he, uh, he says, every one of your dreams, you, you twist to where it’s good for you, I said, well, the good news, the good thing about dreams is that’s what you get to do.

[01:14:07] Kyle Jetsel: Right? You get to decide what they mean,

[01:14:10] Cameron Watson: Right.

[01:14:10] Kyle Jetsel: know? And I haven’t even told him about this dream. I haven’t told anybody about it, but I, I knew, I, I knew you’d be the one to talk to about it. I knew, and I wanna talk to you about something else too after we’re done here. But remind me for a few minutes. But this is good, Cameron. I think, uh, I think I can start focusing on some different things and making a new, you know, I don’t know if I’m gonna, maybe I just rewrite the framework of my life, right? And let the details plug themselves in,

[01:14:43] Cameron Watson: Yeah,

[01:14:44] Kyle Jetsel: you know, and, and melancholy is not, I. 40% of the time being melancholy is not a part of the way I wanna write it moving forward.

[01:14:52] Cameron Watson: would you feel comfortable sharing your vision and purpose on the on video?

[01:15:01] Kyle Jetsel: Uh, why do you ask that Would why do you ask that?

[01:15:06] Cameron Watson: Okay. Well just think about what your vision and purpose is.

[01:15:09] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah. Yeah. I

[01:15:12] Kyle Jetsel: would, Cameron.

[01:15:14] Kyle Jetsel: I would. I’d be, I would because not too many people

[01:15:17] Kyle Jetsel: watch these videos,

[01:15:20] Cameron Watson: that’s true. Although I think this one would probably end up being the one that blows up and has, you know, 6 million views.

[01:15:32] Cameron Watson: ’cause it’s so real and so raw.

[01:15:34] Kyle Jetsel: Great.

[01:15:36] Cameron Watson: And people love to see a car accident,

[01:15:42] Cameron Watson: especially when they know that everyone’s ok

[01:15:44] Kyle Jetsel: You know what? It’s funny you say that, Cameron, we call it rubbernecking in my family. Right? I don’t know if you’ve heard that term,

[01:15:51] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[01:15:52] Kyle Jetsel: but it was, it wasn’t until recently that my kids understood what rubbernecking was

[01:15:58] Cameron Watson: Oh.

[01:15:58] Kyle Jetsel: we were driving and I said the word, and they’re like, what is that? What is rubbernecking? Because we were talking about my son sometimes does things in public, you know, my more severe son

[01:16:10] Cameron Watson: Mm-Hmm.

[01:16:11] Kyle Jetsel: and, and I’m trying to teach them that it’s natural for people to look at unusual, weird, out of the ordinary things. They’re not

[01:16:20] Kyle Jetsel: passing judgment. They’re just curious. It’s, it’s rubbernecking, you know? And they’re like, rubbernecking? I’m like, yeah. Like when you drive by a, a car accident and you, you look to see if, you know. To see what exactly happened. And if anybody’s laying under a sheet, and I know that’s morbid, but you love the morbid stuff anyway. Right? Right. So now every time we see flashing lights, you know, they’re like, rubbernecking, you drive dad, we’ll tell you everything that we see.

[01:16:46] Kyle Jetsel: You know? I’m like, okay, there’s two of you. I wanna hear each of you detail. Right? And so I think you’re, you’re right. You know, people love a car accident, right? And I’m a freaking car accident right now, which in my mind, it makes me think, uh, dude, I’m so emotionally strong. You know what I’m saying? I mean,

[01:17:10] Kyle Jetsel: that’s how I perceive myself.

[01:17:13] Cameron Watson: Well, have you heard Jordan Peterson talk about people? People’s, um, are a balloon. Their emotional, their, their ability to handle life is a balloon. And life is going to press that until something gives, and then it all gives. Right? And so that’s, uh, you know, what you’ve gone through. I can’t, uh, I used to teach a class on interpersonal communication.

[01:17:44] Cameron Watson: We used to talk about the, uh, different types of stress, the stress eustress, and then this other stress. And anyway, insurance companies figured out what would cause people to die sooner. And, um, death of a child is like number one, you know that, that’s like

[01:18:02] Kyle Jetsel: Wouldn’t be for me. Cameron

[01:18:03] Cameron Watson: causes of stress,

[01:18:05] Kyle Jetsel: wouldn’t be for me. I can tell you that right now.

[01:18:08] Cameron Watson: right? Yeah.

[01:18:09] Kyle Jetsel: bigger one for me.

[01:18:11] Cameron Watson: It death of the spouse.

[01:18:13] Kyle Jetsel: That was

[01:18:14] Cameron Watson: then interesting is if you look at the, the different categories, you have divorce, which is a pretty high one, and then death of a spouse, one is a choice where generally the other one is not. And one, you’re, you’re in somewhat of a bit of control over the other one you’re not.

[01:18:35] Cameron Watson: And so, uh, yeah, I used to teach that and I used to teach it when I was in my young twenties.

[01:18:43] Kyle Jetsel: Oh yeah.

[01:18:44] Kyle Jetsel: You knew it all back then.

[01:18:45] Cameron Watson: any life and without any stress. So,

[01:18:51] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah.

[01:18:51] Cameron Watson: so funny now, but hearing you talk about the not wanting, perhaps not taking as good of care. You know, it reminds me of a lot of what my kids have gone through with suicide ideation and a good baseline for them when they were, is when they just didn’t wanna live.

[01:19:15] Cameron Watson: That was like a good day, right? So you’re doing pretty good. This could’ve popped your balloon so bad that you would’ve wanted to take active steps. To end your life instead of passive or just the desire not to wake up. How, what a wonderful blessing that could have been. The, the, the outlook on death of something that’s attractive instead of something to be avoided.

[01:19:42] Cameron Watson: You might’ve been seeking and taking higher risk and doing all that

[01:19:48] Kyle Jetsel: Well, it’s

[01:19:48] Kyle Jetsel: interesting because I don’t, I don’t,

[01:19:50] Cameron Watson: okay.

[01:19:51] Kyle Jetsel: yeah, I, I, I don’t think I’ve taken higher risks because I wouldn’t want anybody to think I took a higher risk. ’cause then they might sniff out my real intentions

[01:20:07] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[01:20:08] Kyle Jetsel: I didn’t want anybody to sniff me out. Right.

[01:20:11] Cameron Watson: So instead you’re just gonna have it recorded on a video that goes onto YouTube.

[01:20:16] Kyle Jetsel: know, since my dream, no. Since my dream

[01:20:19] Cameron Watson: Okay.

[01:20:20] Kyle Jetsel: I have, I’ve dynamically changed my.

[01:20:25] Kyle Jetsel: I had been working on dynamically changing my approach. Yeah. So since my dream, which is a couple weeks ago, I would’ve, I would’ve never, and I think that’s part of it. I would’ve never shared that with you or anybody, had it still been part of what I’m doing. You know what I’m saying? Because now that

[01:20:43] Kyle Jetsel: I’ve shared it, you know, it’s, it goes back to when I was growing up in the hood, the number one rule of committing a crime is you don’t tell anybody you committed, you’re gonna commit a crime.

[01:20:51] Cameron Watson: Right.

[01:20:52] Kyle Jetsel: No.

[01:20:53] Kyle Jetsel: You do it alone

[01:20:54] Cameron Watson: who knows,

[01:20:54] Kyle Jetsel: and you don’t tell anybody you’re planning it and you don’t, there’s no trace of it, So

[01:21:01] Kyle Jetsel: the fact that I’m telling you can, it’s pretty clear at this point now that it, it is not part of my thought process as it was for the past two years. Right.

[01:21:13] Kyle Jetsel: I mean, and, and there’s some weight I think that I was carrying with that. ’cause I knew it wasn’t right. We know I. There are things we carry that we know we shouldn’t be carrying. We don’t want any, it’s this, and maybe, maybe not everybody, but I knew it wasn’t right for me to do that. I, I, you know, I, I’m, go

[01:21:41] Kyle Jetsel: ahead.

[01:21:42] Cameron Watson: so it everybody, everybody can look at their life and regardless of their belief structure, their faith in God or not. Everybody can look at the things that they, I’m gonna use your words, carry or do. And there are probably three or four things that they can stop doing or give up. They don’t even have to start doing something but they can let go of, that would make them a more

[01:22:23] Cameron Watson: Whole complete person, and I know what mine are. I can think about ’em. I I don’t wanna give ’em, I don’t, you know, introspective until it hurts, man.

[01:22:37] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah. Yeah,

[01:22:38] Cameron Watson: I know what they’re, but I don’t think I’m quite ready to let ’em go. This business that my wife and I are building together, it’s driving me crazy. I kind of know what I’m supposed to do, Kyle, and I don’t want to do it.

[01:22:52] Cameron Watson: I don’t want to be all in. I want to have a safety net.

[01:22:57] Kyle Jetsel: yeah.

[01:22:59] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah.

[01:23:00] Cameron Watson: crazy. Anyway, so yeah, there’s stuff there. Everybody knows it. Uh, that there’s, that I, I mean, unless I, I bet I take that back. Not everybody, I’m sure there are people with disabilities who cognitively cannot self-reflect in that manner.

[01:23:17] Kyle Jetsel: Right, right. Sure.

[01:23:19] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah. Or or other.

[01:23:20] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah, I’m sure I I don’t wanna project that on everybody either. I know that’s, that’s a tricky thing. There’s, there’s, we, we create beliefs for reasons, and those reasons are terribly valid to us, even, even

[01:23:35] Kyle Jetsel: if our reasons are not totally accurate. Yeah. I’m, what I’m not trying to do is, is pass judgment on anybody else for theirs.

[01:23:43] Kyle Jetsel: You know, I’m just suggesting I, I can’t imagine I’m alone

[01:23:47] Cameron Watson: Oh yeah.

[01:23:48] Kyle Jetsel: and, and having thoughts that I know are not good and probably not what they should be, but I’m not, but, but if I keep them to myself and nobody else know it, right. If I don’t, my, I, I’ve got this theory on. On thoughts, and

[01:24:10] Cameron Watson: Okay.

[01:24:11] Kyle Jetsel: this is a good place for us to go with this. Uh, you know, thoughts become actions. Actions become habits, habits become character,

[01:24:21] Kyle Jetsel: right? But everybody has thoughts, right, that go through their mind.

[01:24:29] Cameron Watson: Yeah,

[01:24:29] Kyle Jetsel: that I, I like to try to prevent is the action, right, is the outward effect of those thoughts. Because

[01:24:36] Kyle Jetsel: we all have thoughts cross our mind.

[01:24:38] Kyle Jetsel: We’re all gonna be tempted in different ways. We all have thoughts,

[01:24:41] Cameron Watson: Mm-Hmm,

[01:24:41] Kyle Jetsel: you know, but our job is to kind of manage those thoughts in a way that doesn’t, you know, proceed to any action. I don’t think, I don’t think the devil can read our minds, you know what I’m saying?

[01:24:55] Cameron Watson: right?

[01:24:56] Kyle Jetsel: so, so

[01:24:56] Kyle Jetsel: the only way he the only way he knows he’s effectively tempting us is if we act in some way and give him a. He sees that seed of action, right? And so I think a, a big part for me has always been if there’s no outward, I mean thoughts are gonna come in, but if I manage my thoughts and get him out of there and there’s no action that follows, he doesn’t even know he’s, he’s tempting me, right? And I got, screw you, dude.

[01:25:28] Kyle Jetsel: Right? I mean, that’s crazy to say, but if I can do that, this is an area where I’ve thought deep about Cameron, you know, that you and I have had these conversations, but,

[01:25:38] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[01:25:40] Kyle Jetsel: but the idea that, you know, a thought is not really the idea that I don’t take care of myself and I wither quicker. So I can see Shelly quicker. I know that can’t I, I know deep down that that ain’t right.

[01:25:58] Kyle Jetsel: I’m supposed to wanna take care of myself and be healthy and strong and serve properly and all those things, right? But. The idea of being with her is so overwhelmingly there’s a, a pull, a magnetic pull to it that’s hard to escape. Right.

[01:26:26] Kyle Jetsel: But I’m not taking action. Maybe inaction is where, you know, maybe that’s where the devil’s seeing me, right? He’s going, ah, I’m throwing these thoughts in there and I see him not taking action, which is means he’s taking action. Right.

[01:26:42] Cameron Watson: yeah,

[01:26:43] Kyle Jetsel: You know,

[01:26:44] Kyle Jetsel: I, I, I’ve never, I’ve never slept so much in my life in the past two years.

[01:26:50] Cameron Watson: Hmm.

[01:26:50] Kyle Jetsel: Right. I’ve never, I, and it’s weird for me ’cause you know how busy I am

[01:26:57] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[01:26:58] Kyle Jetsel: and

[01:26:58] Kyle Jetsel: I think it’s.

[01:26:59] Cameron Watson: So I’ve been reading a lot of John Grisham books. He’s the guy who writes the lawyer books and. I just read one called The Chamber, where it’s about people on death row and they average 16 hours of sleep a day as they wait to die.

[01:27:20] Kyle Jetsel: Yeah, I

[01:27:21] Kyle Jetsel: think

[01:27:21] Cameron Watson: just told me.

[01:27:22] Kyle Jetsel: Cameron. I think that’s it. I, I, up until this dream, I, I, I mean, I’m a busy body once I’m up, but I, I didn’t want to get up.

[01:27:34] Cameron Watson: Yeah.

[01:27:35] Kyle Jetsel: Right. I, but I know sleep makes time pass faster,

[01:27:40] Cameron Watson: Mm-Hmm.

[01:27:41] Kyle Jetsel: right?

[01:27:42] Kyle Jetsel: And I was looking for things to pass time faster. IF you know, up until recently I found myself, man, if, if I can just get time to fly here, you know, I get what I ultimately want and somehow that feels

[01:28:00] Kyle Jetsel: valiant. ’cause that proves my love for her. My deep

[01:28:04] Cameron Watson: Yeah. You’re being loyal

[01:28:06] Kyle Jetsel: Yes. Yeah. You see how this all this twisted, this twisted right, this twisted thought process is, but I know that dream shook me. I’ve never woke up stomping mad. I mean, I got

[01:28:20] Kyle Jetsel: up and was stomping around so furious. And I’m like, what the heck is going on? And I knew in that moment I thought, okay, I, something’s happening here and I need to, I need to decide what this means, and I need to decide that it means something good and I need to figure this crap out. But for the past week and a half, I’ve been, I’ve been different, but I haven’t really focused in on anything. Right. I mean, I’ve been trying new things and, and again, I, I haven’t been passive in my approach and I’ve, when the alarm goes off, I get up and. I’m going to bed and, and I’m not trying to sleep my life away or, or, or, you know, entertain my life away with outside things anymore. So I know

[01:29:08] Kyle Jetsel: I’m on the right path. I

[01:29:11] Kyle Jetsel: knew that you’d be, I knew you’d be helpful in this case and you just

[01:29:15] Kyle Jetsel: told me what I already knew, probably, which is kind of what happens when, you know, you face these kind of things you just don’t wanna do. Right. Dang

[01:29:25] Cameron Watson: oh. Yeah.

[01:29:27] Kyle Jetsel: Just don’t wanna do it. Okay. Well also have enjoyed, by the way, one of the things I have enjoyed is my mind is freed up to think about whatever I want. I mean, a lot of my time was spent thinking about how I can make her happy.

[01:29:47] Cameron Watson: Mm-Hmm.

[01:29:49] Kyle Jetsel: You know, I. A lot of my time. And those of those of you that are, you know, if you’re married, hopefully that’s, you take a lot of your mental energy in that arena. I recommend it. By the way, if you can keep your thoughts on how do I make my wife happy? How do I show her I love her? You’re gonna have a pretty, it’s gonna work out pretty well for you, right? If that’s where your, a lot of your mental thought is. That’s a beautiful thing. And I recommend that. I think that’s probably a secret to having a happy marriage, is thinking how can I, right? But

[01:30:20] Kyle Jetsel: when that, when you don’t have that anymore, when that’s gone, it opens up a lot of free time for other thoughts, right? And those can go in a lot of different directions. They can go bad, they can go good, you

[01:30:30] Kyle Jetsel: gotta fill it with stuff. And I think that’s what’s happened to me. I’ve been feeling it with melancholy, you know, instead of feeling it with act, with action, some sort of action that’s gonna lead me. You know, when my daughter heard me say, Hey, I don’t have a lot of joy in my life. Just gimme this one. I. And she said, what did you just say? And I, and I kind of ran,

[01:30:52] Cameron Watson: Yeah,

[01:30:54] Kyle Jetsel: you know, I kind of, I kind of hightailed it out of there, so to speak, because it wasn’t a conversation I wanted to have with her. And I, and I don’t think it, maybe she just, I was hoping she thinks it’s just in passing, but I’ll have to talk to her now about it. I’ll have to make sure she knows. She just, I was hoping, she thinks it’s just, I impact, maybe I’ll have her watch this video,

[01:31:17] Cameron Watson: there you go.

[01:31:27] Kyle Jetsel: play basketball with your friends, or, you know, you need to eat better or whatever. It, it’s, that’s part of it, you know, I, I really didn’t know how to take care of myself. I’ve, I focus on her, she’s helped me, and now I’m left to my own devices, which is. Yeah. Okay. Cameron, I think I’ve got a plan, actually.

[01:31:52] Kyle Jetsel: I’ve got a framework I can start working with to create a plan and I, I appreciate your counsel and your friendship. This is gonna be helpful for me.

[01:32:02] Cameron Watson: Yeah. Well thank you and thanks for being so open to hard, hard things.

[01:32:08] Kyle Jetsel: You know what?

[01:32:09] Kyle Jetsel: It crossed my mind and I texted you right away. ’cause I, I, I knew if I didn’t text you right away, I would back out. Has that ever happened?

[01:32:20] Cameron Watson: Oh yeah.

[01:32:21] Kyle Jetsel: It meets the, you know, we talked about my son. It meets the pattern of good. Right? It’s talking through some difficulties with a friend meets a good friend that you trust meets the pattern of good, right.

[01:32:35] Cameron Watson: Yep.

[01:32:35] Kyle Jetsel: Somebody that cares about you. So appreciate it. Cameron,

[01:32:39] Cameron Watson: Yeah,

[01:32:39] Kyle Jetsel: anything else you wanna cover or, like I said, I

[01:32:42] Cameron Watson: no, let’s go ahead and end there and we’ll talk in just.

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