Connect and Conquer
Connect and Conquer
2DT - Connections through Play

Two Dads Talking about all the ways to play and build connections

2dt – Play

2dt – Play

[00:00:00] Kyle:

[00:00:03] Kyle: Hey

[00:00:06] Cameron W: Okay.

[00:00:08] Kyle: Cameron

[00:00:09] Cameron: Hey, that is great.

[00:00:12] Kyle: I can’t see you very well.

[00:00:15] Cameron: Yeah. Well, I can’t see you very well either. That’s a great lead in to our discussion this morning about play and playfulness. \ .

[00:00:23] Kyle: Well, you know what? I put this on Cameron, you know the story behind this,

[00:00:29] Cameron: I do

[00:00:29] Kyle: So one of the things my kids and I love to do is go to thrift stores and we don’t buy much, you know, I mean, it’s not a whole lot to buy. We try to, we try to completely ignore the underwear and bra section, you know, at the thrift store for obvious reasons.

[00:00:48] Kyle: But, uh, if we do find a pair of super giant underwear, we will hold it up and say, Hey, look, you know, just to mess with each other. But we found this in a thrift store, right? One of my kids found this at a thrift store for, uh, for $10, right? And they came walking around the corner. As you can imagine, it was Jack, he’s six four.

[00:01:13] Kyle: He comes walking around the corner wearing this big, big dumb Sasquatch head. You know, above the hole. Everybody can see him and me and all my kids just start laughing, right? We’re like, how much is it? He’s likes like $10, right? So we take it up to the front and they’re fighting over who gets to wear it.

[00:01:31] Kyle: ’cause it’s just silly. Right? Well, as we get ready to check out, the lady says, it’s only $10. And I said, yeah, but you know, I’m thinking, I think I’m thinking it would be great if you would put it on. Because I’ll, I’ll really buy it

[00:01:47] Cameron: you got.

[00:01:48] Kyle: if you put it on. I really will buy it, but I’m not so sure unless you put it on.

[00:01:54] Kyle: And she said, I’m not putting that thing on. And I said, it’s for the kids. This is a thrift store. I know this. You’re gonna donate. Don’t take that $10 out of those kids’ pockets. And my kids are in from here as this thing’s going. So this sweet old lady slips it on her head and the whole place erupts in laughter.

[00:02:15] Kyle: Right. And she takes it off so

[00:02:18] Cameron: Oh my goodness.

[00:02:19] Kyle: and she’s got a big old grin. And my kids are all laughing and it’s just become this, it’s out, it’s, it’s out in my garage. And the kids will stick it on periodically. They take it to high school football games all the time. And it, it, you know, it’s just, it’s, it’s, there’s nothing, it’s just silly.

[00:02:37] Kyle: It’s just good clean, silly fun. Right. To have a big, giant Sasquatch head. You can stick on whenever you want.

[00:02:44] Cameron: Yeah.

[00:02:44] Kyle: But it’s a, it’s a great example

[00:02:46] Cameron: That’s fantastic.

[00:02:47] Kyle: just a, it’s just a, a, a silly little simple example of what I call making unique memories for the kids, right? And teaching them the kind of, the, the joy of playfulness and, and how it, you can just brighten not only your own lives, but people, other people’s lives by being a little bit risky.

[00:03:11] Kyle: I mean, it was probably, I don’t know how appropriate it was for me to say, Hey, if you’ll put it on, I’ll especially buy it. And, and talking this sweet lady who didn’t wanna put it on her head into putting it on her head, you know? So,

[00:03:28] Cameron: You know, that’s, uh, can let me, the, the neat thing about that is now she has a memory too, and she’s gonna tell her family, she’s probably recording a video right now, talking to a friend of hers. About this time, some character came in and convinced her to put on a Sasquatch head. Uh, in order to buy it, the, that convincing and inviting others to play, even though you don’t have a relationship with that lady, you’ve made a connection.

[00:03:58] Cameron: And, you know, one of my favorite people in the world, her name is Tina. And, uh, honestly, 10, 12 years ago, she wasn’t my favorite person because she was kind of pushy, or i’ll, I’ll say

[00:04:12] Kyle: Yeah.

[00:04:13] Cameron W: She was always talking to my wife, talking to, talking to my wife into doing things. And I’d just be like, man, you know, why, why’d you do that?

[00:04:24] Cameron: And she’s like, well, Tina said, you know, she, it was, I wasn’t going to, but Tina made it sound like it was gonna be so much fun. And the next thing I knew x Right? And over the years, over the decade of knowing her, Kind of started to really value how she pulls not just herself into fun and play, but she pulls other people, including my family.

[00:04:52] Cameron: And one of the more recent examples is sledding. My wife was like, I don’t wanna go sledding. It’s not gonna be fun. And you know, I don’t like the cold. So sledding to me is just misery. But Tina’s like, oh, it’ll be great. And so she’s like, we have this great place to go and it’ll be great. And so I’m like, you know what Tina?

[00:05:15] Cameron: She gets us to do things that we normally wouldn’t do that are fun and playful. So we go out and this, it was a road that had been scraped with just the perfect amount of ice on top and it was a good slope and no traffic. ’cause it’s up in Idaho City and it was so much fun. I have a video. I’ll send it to you of my son and I sliding down this thing and we, I got really good.

[00:05:44] Cameron: I mean, think of my math inertia. Put my, at the time, six, seven year old son. He was, uh, six at the time on top of me, and I am having him film or video it, and we get going and we go off and we just keep going and we smack a tree and he smacks a tree with his face that, and we, I’m like, he smashed your face with a tree.

[00:06:10] Cameron: And he’s talking about it. And we still talk about this thing that we wouldn’t have done otherwise if it hadn’t been for Tina. Where Yeah. Was it risky? Sure. Yeah. But life is risk, right? We have the greatest memory of him just booking down this road, going off the side and smacking a tree with his face and breaking a tree, uh, in the middle of wintertime.

[00:06:36] Cameron: The invitation of asking people to play and getting them to be playful. Oh, that there’s so much value there. And I love Tina for that. And now whenever she’s like, let’s do this, I’m like, yeah, let’s do it. Because before years ago, I would’ve been like, nah, you know, I’m not into it now. I’m like, Hey, if Tina thinks it’s gonna be fun, it’s gonna be fun.

[00:06:58] Cameron: We’re gonna have memories even if it doesn’t go

[00:07:00] Kyle: Right. And I think I, I think the, the term you used there that I love so much is memories, right? I mean, you know, life can get monotonous, right? School, work, church, school, work, church. Right? And there has to be moments that we break it up, right? And the more, the more, uh, silly or, and we can, we can, we can weave in. We can weave in playfulness and silliness into these things if we’re, if we’ve got our eyes open, you know it.

[00:07:41] Cameron: Yeah. You know, you’re excellent at that. I don’t think that’s a talent I have. But re remember back when we were in the same office and we worked together and I can’t remember why you did it. So all of a sudden, I remember sitting in my chair and I would look up to think and I look up and there’s a sign that says neither net regions, right? You had taped that word and that still brings me joy. So why in the world did you tape that above my desk? I can’t

[00:08:16] Kyle: You know what it was, it was during the winter time. I remember this because we, me and my kids had a snowball fight, which if it snows, there is a snowball fight. And you know, my rule, and this goes back to what you said. My rule is if it’s legal, moral, ethical and nobody gets hurt too bad, we’re gonna do it.

[00:08:40] Kyle: Right? ’cause somebody’s gonna get hurt occasionally. But that’s, that’s a memory too, like your son smashing his face, right? I mean, not too bad he got hurt, but not too bad. So, but it creates these memories, right? And so, uh, my kids, it was me against all the kids and I’m, you know, I’m super accurate. So they know it’s a, this is gonna be a battle.

[00:09:03] Kyle: ’cause I’m flunking my kids with snowballs, right? It toughens ’em up, you know, it, it, it, you know, they may, it may, they may get a little, a little, you know, a little scrub burn of redness on their face from a snowball, right? And, you know, my wife wasn’t a fan of this either. She’s like, you can’t be so rough with the kids.

[00:09:23] Kyle: I’m like, they’re rough with me. Come on. I’m, they’re throwing snowballs. Yeah, but you’re accurate. You can throw a snowball 60 miles an hour. They can’t do that. I’m like, Hey, this is, this is war. You know, the, the, the whole point is just to create these memories, right? And my kids got pretty creative and they started designing packages of, you know, they would throw some snowballs up high and the other ones would try to hit, like, to get my attention up.

[00:09:50] Kyle: Or they were trying to create diversions. ’cause they knew straight on, they weren’t in this battle, right? Me against six kids. They weren’t winning if they didn’t do something pretty sneaky. And they got my attention. One of the kids was over here and one of the kids was over. And I’m trying to watch ’em all.

[00:10:06] Kyle: And Chloe, my little girl at the time, she was probably seven or eight really young, she hit me right in the nether regions. I use that term. ’cause I don’t wanna say exactly where she hit me, but if I tell you I doubled over in pain and fell to the ground. Had to be iced down with some peas. You’ll know exactly where she hit me when I told you the story.

[00:10:28] Kyle: I said, nether regions. And that word tipped you into some kind of silliness. And before, right?

[00:10:37] Cameron: I not, not re No, I had never heard that referencing, you know, I, I grew up all proper, it was private parts, right. If you weren’t gonna get specific and you’re hitting me with, with other regions, oh my goodness. It’s still funny. It’s a funny way to

[00:10:54] Kyle: when I saw you start to giggle, I thought that’s something that really got him going. How can I, you know, and my mind works like this. I don’t do 90% of the stuff I say because I, you know, but it doesn’t mean I don’t think it and laugh, right? And so I thought, how can I present this in other regions to him more frequently? You know? And I thought, I’ve seen you lean back and think before. And I don’t know, you know, you may not remember it as clearly as I do, but I, I had a, I printed off a picture of a belt and below the belt was the word nether region. And that might be why it tipped you. So you remember that now,

[00:11:38] Cameron: That, that’s right. Now I totally do remember that. Oh my goodness. And that was in a work environment. We, we were getting paid to work. Kyle, you were the office manager. You were supposed to keep us all, you know, nose to the grindstone and you made that place so much fun. And we got so much done. I don’t, I don’t think anyone dreaded coming to work and the jobs that, I mean Jesse and John and that they would have to do, and the people they’d have to deal with, you turned it into a game.

[00:12:15] Cameron: You turned it into fun. I remember one time they got excited because someone was being nasty on the phone. And I was like, why are.

[00:12:26] Kyle: Yeah, you know what, it’s, you know, it really, I think you know this, and I think most people know this, we’re all gonna face some challenging things in our lives, right? And, and you know, I heard a guy one time say he was telling a story and it really impacted me. And you can tell, he said, uh, when you look back on events in your life, a lot of times you smile, even when events were hard. You know, you look back on when you had a flat tire on the freeway in rush hour traffic, and you tell somebody and you’re smiling when you tell the story, right? And he said, if you can smile when you tell the story later, how can you figure out a way to smile when the event is happening real time? And he, he, he posed that question, and I thought to myself, and it reminded me of my father.

[00:13:19] Kyle: Who had taught me a lesson along similar lines. When I was a kid, we used to, I used to live in Dallas and we would drive down to Beaumont, which is down on the coast of Texas, 300 miles away. And back then, this is in the late seventies, it was a six hour drive in the summer Heat of Texas. Right.

[00:13:39] Cameron: Oh.

[00:13:40] Kyle: And we had air conditioning in our car that my dad called 4 55 air conditioning, which is four.

[00:13:47] Cameron: that’s right. We had

[00:13:48] Kyle: Four windows down 55 miles an hour. Right. That was the speed limit. You couldn’t go past that. In Texas, in the late seventies, we had a station wagon that would break down every year, halfway we’d start the drive and we’d break down and after about the third or fourth time, and my uncle Mike, who lived in Beaumont, would drive up sometimes two hours, sometimes three hours, sometimes four hours.

[00:14:10] Kyle: We’d have to wait on the side of the road in Texas heat while he drove up. He was a mechanic. He would fix our car with, you know, duct tape and bailing wire, and we would drive down to Beaumont and then we would drive home, right? And so every year we’d break down. Every year we would break down. And after the third or fourth time, I asked my dad, why do we keep doing this?

[00:14:32] Kyle: You know, we’re gonna break down. This is the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen. And my dad said, he smiled really big. And he said, you know what, Kyle? It’s just a normal trip until something goes wrong, then it’s an adventure.

[00:14:47] Cameron: Oh, that’s

[00:14:48] Kyle: And what I remember, I don’t remember. Here’s what’s interesting. I don’t remember being in Beaumont with family. I remember what we did as brothers when we broke down. I remember one time we went fishing illegally, uh, on, on somebody’s somebody’s pond and caught a bunch of stuff and got chased off. Another time we had a, uh, a cow pie fight.

[00:15:16] Cameron: Yeah. For those of you who don’t know, a cow pie is not a pie. It’s a, uh, it’s a dropping from a cow’s rear end that happens to go flat dries out, and then they become sometimes Frisbee. Uh, like and you can, you can huck

[00:15:33] Kyle: And if they’re dry enough, they just explode when they hit your brother, right? So, yeah,

[00:15:38] Cameron: Yeah. If they’re not dry enough, then you get a

[00:15:40] Kyle: you can’t really pick them up. You don’t, you avoid those.

[00:15:45] Cameron: That’s right. You don’t wanna throw them the dry ones though, they’re not

[00:15:48] Kyle: time we, we were on the side of the road and my dad looked over and probably two, 300 yards away, there was a big bunch of cows. And my dad said, watch this. And he went, you know, and the cows looked up and we were like, so he’s like, watch. And he kept moving and they started coming towards him. Next thing you know, there was 200 cows lined up on the fence.

[00:16:14] Kyle: He had called him over. Right? Now,

[00:16:17] Cameron: The cow

[00:16:18] Kyle: about this. This is what I remember, right? I remember when things went wrong, right? When, when, when life goes wrong or when things go out of order, then they’re an adventure. Then you got a whole new set of memories, right? That you can, that.

[00:16:36] Cameron: You know, isn’t, yeah. Isn’t that what play is, is just artificially creating things that go wrong. I mean, from with sports, you have to, for basketball, for me, you have to get this ball through the hoop, and they’re gonna try and stop you. So you have adversary and you have opposition. Well, if you think about it, that’s kind of stupid, but it’s fun.

[00:17:02] Cameron: And overcoming it with a team creates a cohesion. And you know, some of the guys on my basketball team from high school, I still have such fond memories of them and doing things together and overcoming things with them. Right. And then, you know, talking about trips, one of our trips, uh, my mom was just amazing at taking us on these trips.

[00:17:25] Cameron: And one time we’re driving in a wagoner, uh, from Boise, uh, we’re headed to Salt Lake. And uh, all of a sudden the accelerator pedal stops working and the engine runs, but we pull off on an exit. And, you know, my recollection, I think I was maybe 10, maybe nine years old, and we’re. We pop the hood and we’re just, uh, doing stuff.

[00:17:56] Cameron: And if you move a certain part of the engine, it accelerates. And it’s like, well, so you push the pedal, nothing happens. But if you move this thing inside, underneath the hood, it it, you know, the engine revs up. So we took off all of our shoe laces and we tied it to that thing and we fed it through the window and it was really hard to pull.

[00:18:21] Cameron: I remember it was really tough to pull and it would dig into your hands. And so we took a pair of jeans from a suitcase, tied the shoe laces around the pair of jeans that was folded up so that you had something substantial to hold. And we would pull that to accelerate. So my mom’s driving downtown Salt Lake, giving instructions to the person in the back on accelerating and slowing down.

[00:18:48] Cameron: We got to Salt Lake and. My cousin ended up, uh, super gluing the thing back together from a spare part that he pulled out of a junkyard. And we, but what a great memory of, oh, here’s the other thing. So we’re driving, right? We’re, we’re just trying to this out on the freeway way before we get to Salt Lake and it’s like we get up to 65 or whatever it was, and all of a sudden the hood of the wagoner flaps up and you can’t see anything because we can’t latched it because we were had a shoe lease going through it.

[00:19:23] Cameron: So panic situation, pull over, put the hood down, and then the person in the back is all okay. You know? And my mom’s like, more, more gas, you know, all polite little faster. Okay, that’s good. Yeah, 200 miles into Salt Lake that way.

[00:19:43] Kyle: You know, it’s, it’s, and you know, we wouldn’t think of that as play. Right. However, you know, because a lot of what, a lot of what we’re trying to talk about here, you and I, is connection with people, right.

[00:19:58] Cameron: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[00:20:00] Kyle: One of the ways to do that is by creating memories together that, I mean, you’ll never forget that, right?

[00:20:07] Kyle: You’ll never

[00:20:08] Cameron: Oh, yeah.

[00:20:09] Kyle: And, and it may not have been, you may not have been smiling when it happened, but you’re telling me the story and you got the, the biggest grin you’ve ever had on your face. Right? And, and it’s, you know, we’ve, we’ve decided as a family that, and we’ve, we’ve kind of what my dad said when it, it’s just life until something goes wrong, then it’s an adventure.

[00:20:31] Kyle: We’ve really taken that to heart. And so we’ll be doing stuff and something will go wrong and one of my kids will say, Hey, now it’s an adventure. You never know what’s gonna ha. Right? And it, and it takes what can be occasions where you might get stressed out or angry or frustrated, and you realize in the moment this is gonna be something we talk about.

[00:20:57] Cameron: Yeah.

[00:20:58] Kyle: be a story we share with other people. This is gonna be a moment that connects us as a family. Right now it can connect us because we’re angry and agitated and mad, right?

[00:21:11] Cameron: Yep.

[00:21:12] Kyle: And, and maybe that doesn’t connect us. Maybe that creates a separation, right?

[00:21:17] Cameron: Sure.

[00:21:18] Kyle: spirit into these things, in a lot of cases, a lot of things that are going wrong end up being playful and end up being play right, and end up creating that connection with our kids.

[00:21:30] Kyle: And I think as parents, that’s the thing we’ve gotta guard ourselves against is

[00:21:35] Cameron: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:36] Kyle: there are moments that are gonna be stressful and frustrating and agitate you and have an ability to create a wedge between you and your kids, right? That same moment can create a connection. A super powerful, you know, more gas, I’ll never, I’ll never be able to think about how ludicrous is that more gas.

[00:22:01] Kyle: Right. I’ll never be able to think about that. I’ll never be able to see a wagoner again and not think more gas now. Right. And the fact that you guys this a wonderful connection as a family. Right. And your mom, your mom didn’t freak out. She didn’t scream and yell and go Right. And, and that’s really what can happen to us as parents. Right. It can, it can, it can create something for us that creates a wedge. Right? Or we can look at it in a certain way and it can create a memory, even a, even a good memory.

[00:22:40] Cameron: And you know, it by being playful or doing something that is purely play can also help with depression and anxiety. And, um, we, I started doing adventures. I, and we called him Adventures with my son back when he was suicidal and he was just in the depths and he, um, I, at the time I was like, what can I do to distract him and getting him out of the environment, just a change in environment usually would help, uh, him start to use the other tools that he had at his disposal that he’d been learning to, to help him live life.

[00:23:20] Cameron: And this one time it was snowing really, really hard. This was a few years ago. And we go and, um, we’re driving around and I. We drive by Hobby Lobby over on Fairview, and the snowflakes are huge, right? Beautiful snowflakes. And we’re driving and all of a sudden out of the corner of my eye, I see this guy running and he’s running so fast.

[00:23:47] Cameron: He’s either running away from something or he’s running to something, right? Well, all two minutes later, probably 10 cop cars all over the neighborhood. So my son and I have an adventure and we go find him. Because we had seen him, all the cop cars show up. And what was weird is it we had I’ll, at some point I’ll have him record the story and I’ll send it to you because it was so much fun.

[00:24:17] Cameron: We ended up finding the guy, he got into a garage and then all the cop cars are parked and all of the cops are gone. We don’t know where they are, but their cars are all over. Their lights are on, but no one’s around. And we’re like, we know where the guy is. Anyway, we finally found him, helped told the police, you know, we talked to him for a little bit and uh, the funny thing is they weren’t looking for the guy, that they were there for something else completely.

[00:24:47] Cameron: But how much fun did we have trying to find him? And then we came home and the way we told the story to my wife was as if we just. Help the police find a criminal and arrest him because we didn’t share certain details. And Hyatt and I, we love to tell a story where we don’t lie at all. Everything we say is true, but you structure it in a way that it makes it sound like it’s totally different than the reality.

[00:25:15] Cameron: And that was a lot of fun. We talk about that adventure all the time. Uh, another time, um, this one, I don’t know if I should share.

[00:25:25] Kyle: You.

[00:25:26] Cameron: So my son’s suicidal, so he’s suicidal. He wants to kill himself. And so I say, well, why don’t we go shooting?

[00:25:39] Kyle: Dark.

[00:25:40] Cameron: we go to a gun range and. Yeah, because it’s funny, right? We, and so he’s like, what?

[00:25:49] Cameron: I was like, well, if you’re having intrusive thoughts about suicide, let’s go shooting. And it, I, I actually told him, I was like, I’m gonna take you somewhere. So this is how I set it up. I was like, okay, we’re gonna, you’re, you’re, you’re in the depths. We’re gonna go somewhere and I will pay you a hundred bucks if you can figure out where we’re going before we get there.

[00:26:14] Cameron: And so we’re driving, and this is something we’ve done in, uh, we, Hyatt and I have been, uh, we’ve gone through some pretty substantial handgun training on how to shoot, and it’s something we’d love to do. So we’re driving, we have not done it in Boise ever. And so I’m driving to this place a gun range, and all of a sudden he goes, I.

[00:26:37] Cameron: We’re going to a gun shop. ’cause he knows me, he knows how weird my sense of humor is. I was like, you’re close. And we get to the gun range and he’s ecstatic. So we go in and totally shifts everything, right? It that playful before the event. Pulls them out and we go and we go shooting. Now, like I said, that’s not a story I can normally share because people would freak out.

[00:27:06] Cameron: You took someone who’s suicidal and gave them a gun. Well, not like

[00:27:10] Kyle: Right, right,

[00:27:11] Cameron: I, I was faithful and we went to a gun shop that happened to have a gun range. And now that he was safe, we went shooting and talk about trust in gendering, right? Because he knows that. He can trust me to, to tell me, Hey, I’m, I’m not doing well, and what am I gonna do?

[00:27:31] Cameron: Am I gonna flee from that? Or I’m gonna embrace him and say, okay, well let’s go, let’s go play, let’s go have an adventure.

[00:27:38] Kyle: What a, what a what a great example of you knowing, you know, I think play creates a world where you know them and they know you. Right? And, and that creates the connection you’re talking about, right? Because you’re not, you’re not some nebulous individual that they don’t really know. Right. Because you play and because you talk and because you do things, they can see your strategy and they can see, right.

[00:28:10] Kyle: I was talking to my older son, I took him to the airport yesterday. He and his wife went to San Diego for fun,

[00:28:18] Cameron: Oh,

[00:28:19] Kyle: and we were going to pick up his wife at work and then go straight to the airport and he said, He said to me that he appreciated how I didn’t hide my flaws from him. Right. And he, and he said, because he said, I wonder that if some parents wanna be so perfect that their kids are afraid or, or see their parents as thinking they’re perfect and don’t, and don’t know, they can’t be perfect and they don’t connect with them, right? He says, I’ve seen, I’ve seen you’ve come to me and I’ve seen you, your flaws. You’ve apologized to me. You’ve said, I messed that up.

[00:29:06] Cameron W: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:07] Kyle: And he said it, it, and it made me realize you’re trying to figure stuff out too. And it made me, it connected with you on a, on a deeper level because I realized I don’t have to be perfect as a human or a parent either.

[00:29:20] Kyle: Right. And, and that’s okay. Right. And I love what you did there. Hey buddy. Hey, I love what you did with him, which is, you talk about changing the environment, right? And I think that’s a lot of that, that’s what play is, right? That’s what playfulness is. And you can, you can weave those into a lot of things, right?

[00:29:42] Kyle: Go somewhere you haven’t gone before or surprise them, uh, with where you’re going, or that’s all right. Or, um, you know, my kids and I, you know, this, we, we have marshmallow guns that you, we create, that you put a marshmallow in and you blow it and it shoots and they’re pretty accurate.

[00:30:04] Cameron: Yeah.

[00:30:05] Kyle: And we like to go do drive-by shootings right now.

[00:30:10] Kyle: This is gonna be sound dark too.

[00:30:14] Cameron: Yeah.

[00:30:14] Kyle: we’ve discovered that, uh, if you, you know, you, you. Drive through a neighborhood, or in our case, we like to drive through the village, which is a really high-end outdoor shop.

[00:30:27] Cameron: Yeah.

[00:30:29] Kyle: And we roll through slowly and we roll the windows down and we’ll shoot a marshmallow above someone’s head. Right. And if they smile,

[00:30:39] Cameron: Get their attention.

[00:30:40] Kyle: they smile, then we just pepper ’em with marshmallows. And it’s the funniest thing you’ve ever seen. And they, they have the greatest reactions, right? There’s other people, you shoot a marshmallow above their head and they get angry. Right. And we move on to the next group of people, right.

[00:30:58] Kyle: But we don’t do it very often. But occasionally the kids will just come to me and say, I think it’s time we do some drive-by shootings, dad. Right? And we we’re like, okay, let’s get the marshmallow guns out. But

[00:31:11] Cameron: Oh,

[00:31:12] Kyle: it’s a cha, it’s changing the environment, right? And, and not being afraid to do something that’s a little outside the norm. Because what happens is, is is it creates the giggles, it creates the silliness, it creates, right? That’s when you start to, that’s when play becomes, and then when you start to see your own kids do it. One of the things I do with my kids, I’ve always done this, is when I’m driving and they’re, and they’re in the passenger side and I’m driving, and here in Boise we have a lot of sprinklers that shoot all over the place.

[00:31:47] Kyle: Sometimes in the,

[00:31:48] Cameron: Oh yeah. No one knows how to get them to just stay on the lawn. They’re

[00:31:52] Kyle: they’re always shooting in the street. And so my kids are, they know now that if there’s a sprinkler shooting into the street, I’m gonna roll down their window and lock it and swerve and hose ’em down. Right? They know this. So they’ll be watching and they’ll hold the button or you.

[00:32:12] Cameron: Yeah, they’ll get the kill switch so that you can’t roll it down.

[00:32:16] Kyle: this and they know it. Right? Well, I was riding with my son Ricky recently. He’s got his license. He’s driving now and we’re cruising along down through a neighborhood, and all of a sudden I glance over at him, he’s grinning, and I’m like, what is he grinning about? And sure enough, the car swerves and I get hosed by a water sprinkler. Right. And he has the biggest grin you’ve ever seen on his face. And I said, you sorry little son of a gun. He’s like, I wanna do that to my kids too. Right. He’s, he’s, but I got, and he couldn’t wait to tell his brothers and sister Right.

[00:32:55] Cameron: That

[00:32:55] Kyle: That he got his dad. Right. But it’s, it’s, and it’s something that’s branded into his brain now that he, he tells everybody, he sees, he’s so excited that he finally got his dad back for hosing him down all those years, you know?

[00:33:08] Kyle: But it’s really simple little stuff like that that doesn’t. It doesn’t take much. Right. It doesn’t. The other thing that we do is we have a slide wh in one of our cars, and we’ll, one of the kids will pull it out and as we drive by people and they’ll, you know, you just don’t hear that.

[00:33:26] Cameron: Yeah, from like the Looney like and Jerry type of, just the sound effects.

[00:33:34] Kyle: Yeah. And, and we, another thing we do is we, we go get ice cream cones and we’ve, we’ve found out, it’s very funny, if you’re licking your ice cream cone and you see other people in cars and they see you, you tip it at ’em. Right. Like Right. And

[00:33:54] Cameron: Cone.

[00:33:54] Kyle: yeah. So the whole car, we’re all driving licking our ice cream cones and we’re tipping ’em at people.

[00:33:58] Kyle: Right. Well, we’ve had other kids in the car, friends. We’ve told them, Chloe said, Hey, can we get ice cream cones? I’m like, sure. So we’ll go get ice cream cones. And she’ll tell her friends, listen, you have to tip your ice cream cone to people. They’re like, what whatcha talking about? And we start doing it.

[00:34:14] Kyle: And it’s just the, they giggle the whole family. Right. And we, we got 10 or 15 different families. Now they’re all tipping

[00:34:22] Cameron W: All tipping.

[00:34:23] Kyle: Cream because it’s silly. It’s simple, it’s easy. It creates memories. It’s funny, right? It’s, it’s the little simple things.

[00:34:31] Cameron: we’ve done the smile game. We’ll go to a, we’ll go to the store and you know, we have eight kids and if we’re all together, man, it, it looks like, you know, They, you know, they let us out of the zoo for a little bit or something, but we’ll do, and we’ll do points. And so what you do is you start off and you get one point.

[00:34:50] Cameron: If you can get someone to head bop you back. And so you, you do a head bop. If they head bop you, then you smile. If they smile, then you say, Hey, if they say hey, so you get, you know, uh, 1.3 points and then five points if you can get ’em to smile and or say hi, sorry. And we call it the smile game. And what’s hilarious is Will gets kind of spread out and the first person that they come in, con the, as the person’s walking towards the member of the family head bop, they’ll reply, head bop, smile, smile.

[00:35:24] Cameron: Maybe they won’t, they won’t say hi back. But then there’s another family member. Just a little bit further doing the same thing. Smile head bop. And so by the time this person gets down the aisle, there’s like 10 people doing a head bop, a smile, Hey, how’s it going? And it’s funny to see them change. Their whole countenance changes.

[00:35:47] Cameron: They, they stop being, some of them, they start off rigid. And by the time they get down the aisle where they’ve just had a head bop from a five-year-old kid after having a, an adult do it, they’re just like loose. You know? It’s like, okay, life is okay. And that’s our goal is to bring some joy to them. And it’s fun because it’s absurd.

[00:36:11] Cameron: It is absurd. Something else, I got my son Hyatt, he knows how to play. He, we will go to the store and he will set up things. So he, um, Uh, Hyatt and I, we, we can’t handle milk. So we have these little lactase pills that we’ll take if we’re gonna have ice cream. ’cause you know, it, ice cream’s enjoyable until it’s not.

[00:36:33] Cameron: Right. So we take the lactase and we’re fine. Well, he, it’s a very distinct pill. And he’ll go and he’ll stick it somewhere in the store. That’s absurd. And then two days later when he is with his friends, he’ll just casually go up and he’ll, you know, do this. Nothing in his hands. Go up, reach where no one else can get to.

[00:36:55] Cameron: Pull down this pill, stick it in his mouth and eat it in

[00:36:58] Kyle: There you go.

[00:36:59] Cameron: Just play, you know, just play so much fun. One other story about, uh, so, you know, you talked about the monotony of work, church, school, work, church, school. Um, I sometimes I, perception wise, people don’t realize I’m actually kind of playful.

[00:37:21] Cameron: Uh, I don’t wi uh, I’m very polite and so I usually hold back my play until it’s in a setting where people know me and I’m not going to offend because, uh, I just, I would hate to offend somebody. Well tell you about, uh, my, my Aunt Lorraine had, uh, been ill for just a few months and she passed away on Sunday, last Sunday, uh, Monday morning and got the text from my cousin and, uh, after church my daughter was being set apart for a new calling.

[00:37:58] Cameron: And, uh, the person, you know, doing the setting apart, he commented, he goes, Hey, it’s good to have the Watsons here. You know, we don’t know ’cause we’ve, in the last month we had heart surgery for Hannah, tonsillectomy. For Sarah and I. I think that’s kind of it. So pretty mild month in the last 30 days for us.

[00:38:18] Cameron: And he was just commenting on how great it is to have the Watsons there. And, uh, I was like, yeah, yeah. And he goes, we never know who’s gonna be able to come to church. And I was like, yeah, that’s true. And he goes, yeah, the Watsons, well, at least everyone’s alive. I couldn’t help myself. And I said, well, except for Lorraine who had just died that morning. And this poor gentleman, you know what? He doesn’t get my morbid dark sense of humor, but oh boy, did my kids love that. Oh, my daughter Rachel, just, she looks at me, she gets this expression like he said it out loud. That’s an inside thought. Normally share that later, but. That play, that playfulness, that all of a sudden it took something that could have been drawing us down.

[00:39:13] Cameron: The fact that my Aunt Lorraine, who we, she is a second grandma to my kids. My, my mom’s mom died, or my mom’s mom, my wife’s mom passed away when we were, uh, first married. So none of my kids got to know her on earth. They’ve just gotten to know her by memories and stories. But my Aunt Lorraine would come up every year and spend time at our house.

[00:39:36] Cameron: We even went on a cruise with her and my daughters would actually go visit her on their own, contact her on our own. And so there’s this really intimate relationship with, uh, this person who passed away. And it could have been sad and depressing that she died and I turned it into levity. Now, was it offensive?

[00:39:57] Cameron: It, it was risky on my end, but I, I went there anyway. And so now the death of my aunt, which is sad on some parts ’cause we’re not gonna see her here in mortality anymore. But it’s kind of fun. It has a funny story about the day that she passed away, similar to when, uh, I got the cancer diagnosis and, uh, you know, we told the story about, um, the square footage not being charged by the square foot for the, but the other side of it is I was, when I had, I was talking on the phone, I just got the diagnosis that I had cancer.

[00:40:39] Cameron: You and John were talking behind me about how I’m always happy. And then one of you, I think maybe John said, or I don’t know, who said, well, nothing bad ever happens to Cameron. And the other one says, oh no. Bad stuff happens to Cameron. He’s just okay with it. And I took the opportunity to swivel around and say, yeah, for example, I just found out I had cancer and I’m smiling and watching you two, it just shut the conversation down.

[00:41:10] Cameron: That was so fun to take something awful and just mock it a little bit and make it so that YouTube didn’t know what to say. And I got so much joy outta that. I started dropping it into conversations. So I’d be meeting with people and I’d be like, well, how? How am I doing? I’m doing pretty good. I just found out I have cancer and just watching crickets. Action. What are they supposed to say? It was so fun.

[00:41:44] Kyle: Well, what

[00:41:44] Cameron: so inappropriate

[00:41:45] Kyle: what you’re talking about there is we we’re always looking, I think we’re always looking for ways to create comedy and silliness in our, in our family, but some of it is you, you can’t do. Right. We just don’t do it. For instance, my kids know that if they walk in front of my car and I’m sitting in it, I’m honking and they’re jumping.

[00:42:10] Kyle: That’s just what’s gonna happen. Okay. They’re always baiting their friends to walk in front of the car. ’cause they know if their friends walk in front of the car, I’m gonna honk and their friends are gonna jump. Right. And so, you know, it, it’s common for us Now, we, I rolled up to drop my son off at the airport and in front of me was an older couple with a younger couple kind of hugging goodbye at the airport.

[00:42:35] Kyle: Right in front of my car and Alex says, I know what you’re thinking. I said, these people are in such a sweet moment of just hugging each other, but if I honked, they would jump outta their skin right now. And he laughed and I laughed. We don’t do it.

[00:42:55] Cameron: And you didn’t even

[00:42:55] Kyle: didn’t have to do it. But because, you know, you’ve created this atmosphere of let’s look for ways to have fun.

[00:43:04] Kyle: Let’s find ways to have fun. You know, but you, you don’t always have to do it to still enjoy the fun, right? And so,

[00:43:13] Cameron: Yeah.

[00:43:14] Kyle: so I think sometimes creating that atmosphere where, you know, and, and occasionally your kids are gonna push it too far because they’re kids and they don’t know yet, and that’s when you.

[00:43:24] Cameron: Yeah. They haven’t discovered the consequences of pushing it.

[00:43:28] Kyle: There’s some parameters, right? And you shouldn’t be shocked or upset at ’em. You should say, Hey, listen, let’s talk about the parameters, right? For instance, when it snows here in Boise, I’ve, I’m super accurate. For some reason, I’ve always been accurate thrower. And I will throw a snowball and hit the wall, you know, 10 feet in front of a, a couple, and they’ll look at me and I’ll say, I could have hit you if I wanted to, and I’ll grin, right?

[00:43:56] Kyle: Sometimes they grin back and it’s, it’s funny, my kids get a kick out of it. Sometimes they don’t grin back. Either way, we’re laughing, I didn’t hit anybody, right? But it’s a chance for us to enjoy the silliness of it, right? But, you know, there’s, there’s parameters to what we’re doing here. And you know, again, again, those are the parameters you, you start to learn.

[00:44:21] Kyle: But you’re right. Sometimes the funniest things are when you get the wrong or a weird. Reaction and, and your kids almost expect my kids now, you know, a lot of stores have these, uh, rewards programs and you check out and they say, Hey, are you a member of our rewards program? And I commonly say, you know, I’m not really motivated by rewards.

[00:44:45] Kyle: I’m really more motivated by the fear of pain and suffering. So if you have a pain and suffering program, I’d sign up for that. And, and I, I get all kinds of reactions and my kids almost expect it now, and they’re watching Right. Either way. Whether I get a smile or somebody that’s so uncomfortable, it’s not even funny.

[00:45:07] Kyle: They have this grin on their faces. Right. And, and I’ve caught, I’ve caught them starting to do it now too. Right? Or are you part of our loyalty program? Well, you know, I’m not that loyal. I shop all over town. I don’t, I don’t, I’m not sure how that be. I makes any sense. Right.

[00:45:24] Cameron: I’m not ready for that type of level of commitment, frankly.

[00:45:28] Kyle: I’m gonna start saying,

[00:45:29] Cameron: I think you’re a nice person, but I just don’t feel the connection.

[00:45:32] Kyle: ready for that type of commitment. I love that. That’s gonna go in my Rolodex of things to say now, right? Because it’s a perfect thing to say, but yeah. The, the whole, the whole point is, is the levity, right? I mean, and, and frankly, I’m, I’m, I’m really grateful for, and, and I think you’re probably here too, right?

[00:45:55] Kyle: You’ve, you’ve faced some things with your kids, you know, that have made you realize some things don’t matter that much, right? And, and losing their mom. I think my kids and I too, have realized some of the things we thought were important or really mattered. Man, they don’t matter at all. You know, I mean, and, and some of the things that used to upset us or bother my kids, man, it, it just falls right off of them now because they know what real right?

[00:46:32] Kyle: They know what real, what’s real and what’s not real, right? What’s, and so a lot, a lot of times almost use, you know, we’re all gonna face tragedy and difficulty and, and pain, right? And the ability to say, Hey, listen, we’re all gonna face that. How do we handle it? Right? How do we go through these things, right?

[00:46:57] Kyle: Can we, can we, we’re all gonna face ’em. Uh, is it gonna destroy us or are we gonna create memories? Are we gonna create a world where we can thrive? Right? Where when you get the cancer diagnosis, you can smile or you can use it to put other p if, if it makes you smile. Put other p, keep people in uncomfortable positions, right?

[00:47:18] Cameron: Oh, and I taught my kids to use it all the time, and it took something tragic in our

[00:47:24] Kyle: Sure.

[00:47:25] Cameron: you know, Hey dad got cancer and turned it into the longest running joke you can imagine. Because each kid, when they were late with their homework, I was like, Hey, go to your teacher and said, Hey, can I turn this in late?

[00:47:40] Cameron: My dad got diagnosed with cancer and they’re like, you got diagnosed with cancer like a year ago? I was like, don’t tell ’em that detail. Just say, can I turn this paper in late? My dad got diagnosed with cancer and you know, they, and the other thing I would do about something, uh, because some. Sometimes the teachers would pressure them into doing things that we didn’t want them to do or they didn’t wanna do, or they didn’t feel confident on their own.

[00:48:14] Cameron: So I would write them a note that would say, if you have any questions, please contact me. And then I would put my number on it and sign it. And I said, just take it. And if they have any, if they give you any pushback, just hand them the note. They’re not gonna ever call me. I have only had one teacher call me, one rugby coach, and she was awesome.

[00:48:37] Cameron: The fact that she actually called me because it was that important to her. She was fantastic. And that was for my daughter, Rebecca. So we were not gonna let Rebecca play rugby. We didn’t know why at the time, but it was like, boy, she should not play. But she wanted to play. She wanted to play sixteens or whatever.

[00:48:54] Cameron: Sevens, she was playing sevens and she wanted fourteens or whatever. We, she got a blessing and she was like, I don’t think I’m supposed to play. I’m like, yeah, you shouldn’t. She goes, but how am I gonna tell my coach? I was like, give her my number, here you go. And she did. And the rest coach called me and I was able to just say, oh yeah, we made the decision.

[00:49:17] Cameron: I’m not gonna go into detail, but she’s not gonna play rugby this time and it has nothing to do with the program and thank you so much for calling. And then the coach is like, well, what can we do? What can I do? Can she, and that rugby coach was awesome, but that play of having it be, use the stuff that life’s given you to make things awesome.

[00:49:39] Cameron: And another story, my daughter Elizabeth, she um, uh, she missed a deadline for a scholarship for college. And she was like, is there any way and that I can apply for this scholarship? And, uh, I’m probably getting all the details wrong, but they’re like, you know, probably not. I mean, what, what would, what could possibly justify it?

[00:50:02] Cameron: And she showed me the document she wrote and the picture she included, it was from when she broke her back from a car accident. She included Hannah’s heart surgery. She included my wife’s seven surgeries. She included my misdiagnosis of a lung abscess that looked like cancer. She included a whole list.

[00:50:21] Cameron: And she goes, since you asked, and she went through and they were like, oh yeah, you can apply for the scholarship. But I love it because it, it makes ’em realize there’s actually value that you get from it, whether it’s humor or just to help people realize that, hey, we didn’t want to not participate, we just.

[00:50:47] Cameron: Had other things going on, but we’re okay. We’re fine. And it, it’s rather funny the number of things that we get to, to, to use for joy and for good.

[00:51:01] Kyle: Well, and you’re, and you’re talking about just Im, I mean, it’s almost, it’s a weaving in of a, you know, I’ve got some friends who are very stoic, I’ll call them stoic, and I’m not sure, you know, a lot of the things that you and I have talked about that they would actually try because they are stoic.

[00:51:24] Kyle: Right. So here’s, uh, here’s my question for you is I’m not that guy. I’m a big goofball. Right.

[00:51:33] Cameron: Yeah.

[00:51:34] Kyle: How, let’s discuss and, and you got some stoicism to you, right? You

[00:51:42] Cameron: Oh yeah. I’m outward.

[00:51:45] Kyle: Yeah.

[00:51:47] Cameron: Suit and tie. Not funny because I’m, I do have that

[00:51:51] Kyle: Okay. And I don’t, so I obviously am coming at this from a how would you know being, how, how would, if you wanna be, if you wanna present to the world your stoicism. And there are people that do that. That’s okay. They need to, right. They have specific duties that require them to be that way. Um, how do you, how do you import, you know, playfulness or play if it’s not your natural desire to just be a big goofball with your kids?

[00:52:25] Kyle: Right. I mean, I don’t, ’cause I’m sure there are people out there who saying this, this makes, these guys are a couple of idiots, goofballs, and I’m not gonna, you know, I’m not gonna go into Walmart and put googly eyes on Pampers to make my kids laugh. You know? Right. And you know, and we’ve done that too, by the way, and took pictures.

[00:52:44] Kyle: Hilarious because we even got caught by an employee one time in Walmart doing it, and we said, sorry. And she’s like, no, I think it’s funny. Keep doing it. Right. And people that we knew later on, we’d tell ’em the story and they’d say, I saw those googly eyes on. Right. But there are those individuals who will not, they’re not doing that.

[00:53:04] Kyle: Right. How, how can they, you know, as dads or moms import, play or create that world for their kids where they can, they can experience those joys and get the connection that play can bring with it. What do you think I,

[00:53:21] Cameron: Okay, so this is gonna sound self-serving. I wasn’t planning to go

[00:53:26] Kyle: okay.

[00:53:27] Cameron: but this is, this is such a perfect setup. Um, for those who aren’t naturally goof, Bly play organized games that have rules. And whether that’s a board game, a card game, or snapshot, capture a game that we’re writing right now just for this whole purpose.

[00:53:52] Cameron: And so the I what, let, lemme tell the story again. Um, so my son Hyatt going through awful depression and anxiety and he starts playing this game called Senior Assassin, where you take a dinosaur and to assassinate the other person, you just touch ’em with the dinosaur. And they started getting all creative and it formed real.

[00:54:13] Cameron: He, he like his attitude and his life got substantially better. His best friend today, he bonded with that person through. A game, and it was organized, it had rules. So stoic people like myself, we enjoy knowing where the boundaries are, where they start and end. And what’s great about snapshot capture is it allows you to do the same type of thing where you can participate in a game, where you form the same memories as other people, but you don’t have to extend outside of something that is norm because it’s a game.

[00:54:49] Cameron: So giving yourself, playing a game like Snapshot Capture allows you to do things that you normally wouldn’t do because it’s part of a recognized, it’s official. You’re playing a game in the same way. You wouldn’t normally run down a field throwing a ball up, uh, randomly with without a goal. This gives you a goal that makes it okay to not be in your typical stoicism.

[00:55:18] Cameron: I. For me, the, the answer has shifted from me. Uh, so now I play games with the kids and there’s a game that we love. We call it Whoop, but the actual name of the game is O Hell. Okay? We changed the name because we want our kids to learn, you know, proper stuff according to the Watsons. And it’s fun when, when things go wrong, you, the, the, instead of saying, oh hell, you go, oh, right.

[00:55:48] Cameron: The game itself allows you opportunities to make connections with people in a framework that stoic person like myself can enjoy publicly. People still think that I am stoic. ’cause I, I mean, I wear, I like wearing collared shirts, you know, I like wearing a suit and tie. If I had my way, I’d be in a suit and tie almost every day.

[00:56:13] Cameron: I like it now. It doesn’t work right now for in society, but with my family, they’ve seen they a lot. I didn’t realize this early on, Kyle, but my older kids didn’t realize I had a sense of humor until they were adults, because I never showed them because I was stoic as, and you got to see it because you’re such a goofball.

[00:56:43] Cameron: I could be a little bit more goofy or let things out and it was okay. And then as my older kids got old, my wife has seen it by the way my, if my wife said this to me, she goes, Hey Cameron, you know, when we got married, I had just accepted the fact that I was gonna marry someone that didn’t have a sense of

[00:57:04] Kyle: Wow.

[00:57:07] Cameron: And she now, she’s like, I’m so glad I was wrong just because I was stoic right now. Playing a game, whether it’s snapshot capture, which will be done by the end of this month. We’re going into testing, we’re having our dramatic demonstration in October. We’re going to Rexburg in two weeks where we’re going to Rexburg experience and we’re gonna have people sign up for the pre-launch of snapshot capture, where they can, they’ll get an assignment that they have to go capture that person by taking a selfie of themself with them in the background.

[00:57:42] Cameron: And that starts, and we’re doing that to create connection because that play, that shared goal, that overcoming a challenge, even though it’s artificially created, whether it’s playing o uh, whoop or playing monopoly, or playing snapshot capture, having a goal with fake adversity builds connections so that then when you really do have adversity, you know how to deal with it.

[00:58:10] Cameron: You don’t, you’re not a bad sport in the game of life, not the board game of life, but in real life. ’cause you can, you can have a snowball come and hit the wall next to you and you can turn and be like, who the threw that

[00:58:22] Kyle: Right.

[00:58:24] Cameron: Or you could be like, holy cow, someone just threw a snowball at me. And look around and be like, grateful that you didn’t get hit right.

[00:58:31] Cameron: And then have the guy say, I could’ve hit you if I wanted to. And just be so grateful that you didn’t get hit. Right. Or have a, a marshmallow, a little marshmallow mini. Are

[00:58:43] Kyle: Yeah.

[00:58:43] Cameron: or are they, because I remember the well right. Fly above you and be like, what? And then look over and see, you know, a bunch of, you know, and be like, huh.

[00:58:56] Cameron: And then smile. And then get peppered with marshmallows. What a story to tell later. And if you can have good sportsmanship and good reactions in play. Then when life hits you with non artificial adversity and non made up things, now you can handle life a lot better because you’ve practiced in play. So there is real, honest to goodness reasons to play with your family, with your friends.

[00:59:26] Cameron: And the, I read an article, I started reading an article and I can’t find it, but it essentially said, connecting with friends or it said, uh, catching up with friends is not enough. You need to connect with your friends through play. And I was like, that’s so interesting. Now, it could be that it’s on my radar ’cause we’re about to release this app, but it, I, I do believe, I do believe that play is required for healthy.

[00:59:59] Cameron: Mental status. And if you can play young and learn how to handle adversity and to handle when you lose and handle when you win, then when it life throws real adversity at you. It’s the same thing. You gotta, you have to deal with the consequences of winning or losing or overcoming adversity.

[01:00:21] Kyle: The the, no, I love it because the thing that really jumped out at me, That you said is good sportsmanship in life. Right. And, and I really love that because the reason I love it is because we’re surrounded. You know, I saw a quote one time, it said, uh, uh, bitter people live in an angry, hostile world. Happy

[01:00:48] Cameron: Hmm.

[01:00:48] Kyle: live in a loving, caring world.

[01:00:51] Kyle: Same world. Right? And it, and it, and it, when I saw that quote, it obviously, I believe I live in a happy, caring world, right? And I, and I consider myself to be pretty happy, but it’s, it’s easy. And you see it all around us. The bitterness and the selfishness and the anger right, is permeates a lot. Right? And it can, it can suck you in. Right. And when it sucks you in, it does that because you, you don’t have good sportsmanship in life, right? You’re, you’re bitter or angry or discouraged over getting, you know, somebody cutting you off on the freeway or not getting a spot to Walmart or like, these are simple, stupid things, but they will impact people in harsh ways, right?

[01:01:46] Kyle: And people will almost see them as stacking, right? Well, first somebody cut me off on my way to Walmart. Then, you know, there was 74 handicap spots in front of Walmart and nobody was parked. And ’em, I had to park halfway out in the parking lot. And then my, my wheel on my cart was squeaky. And then the, you know, the cashier was rude to me.

[01:02:06] Kyle: I mean, it just stacks, right? It’s, and it, and it’s really almost as if they haven’t played games, right? And, and seen and created good sportsmanship, right? Or learn to. Except when they’re the butt of the joke. Right. Or they’re right. And, and I think that’s a, it’s an, it’s an important thing for kids and us too, to learn.

[01:02:34] Kyle: Right. My kids have gone to school and they’ve been called names by kids. Right. I heard about it, not generally from my kids, because they don’t care, because I goof with my kids all the time too. What are you A peanut, peanut head? I mean, they’re, it’s not like they know that it doesn’t mean anything. Right.

[01:02:57] Kyle: They, I’m goofing with them. I’m having fun with them. I’m, you know, they’re learning, this doesn’t really matter. It’s just silliness. Right. It’s just, it’s, it’s playful. When they get attacked by other kids, it doesn’t devastate ’em because they realize what it is. Right. And I, I also, something I’ll share that I thought was super powerful, I saw it probably a couple months ago, it said, and it was, it was a director, uh, in Hollywood talking about, uh, movies.

[01:03:28] Kyle: And he said, you know, the hero and the villain both have the same backstory, right? The hero and the villain both are beaten up by life as kids, or they experience tragedy or they face huge challenges, right? He says, the difference is the hero comes out of that and says, I don’t want this to ever happen to anybody else ever again.

[01:03:54] Kyle: So I’m gonna make it my goal to add joy to people’s lives and help people. Right? And the villain comes out and says, I’m gonna get back at the world ’cause I’ve suffered. Right? Both have suffered,

[01:04:06] Cameron: Yeah.

[01:04:07] Kyle: both have faced difficult circumstances. One becomes a hero because of the way they view. How they’re gonna approach it, the other becomes a villain.

[01:04:17] Kyle: Right? And it was really powerful to think about how, you know, we, we’ve all faced tragedy, we all will, right? How can we make these kids, or help these kids and help ourselves to realize that tragedy and difficulty is part of life? How can we create the levity that’s needed, right? Through play, through connection, so that when they come out the other side, they say, you know, these scars are where the world tried to beat me up and, and failed this one here and this wrinkle, and this pain line and this, right?

[01:04:52] Kyle: These are all badges of honor, right? Where the world tried to beat the crap out of me and it failed. And it, it leaves scars, right? But it also, it turns you into somebody that you can be, you know, a the better ver a better version of yourself who’s willing to help. And lift other people. And that starts in our family, right?

[01:05:12] Kyle: How can we do that in our family? So I like that. I like your approach to stoicism being, almost have to, though it can’t happen by accident, right, Cameron? I mean, you.

[01:05:25] Cameron: No, if you’re naturally stoic it, you have to choose to engage in the same way that with Tina, when Tina say, makes a suggestion, I’m like, yes. That is not my natural tendency. My natural tendency is to be no. But when Tina makes a suggestion, I say, yes. When Kyle makes a suggestion, I say yes. Here’s a, here’s a Jim that I heard, uh, when we first got married, and it was Husbands look for opportunities to say yes to your wife. Wives. Look for opportunities to say yes to your husband. Now, what’s funny about that is they mean different things to different people. I had someone tell me, I don’t think they should be talking about sex like that. I was like, what? What? Okay, so you’re, that’s your focus is that’s what you’re, wow, okay. I took it for everything else.

[01:06:32] Cameron: But that works too. Look for opportunities to say yes in the same way to life. When there’s opportunities, look for the opportunities to say yes. And that has served me really well in my marriage and I’m teaching my kids that we can’t always say yes, but we can look for the opportunity. And even if we don’t do it in the same way that you tell the stories or think about it, you might not do it, but you look for the opportunity to say yes or to engage or and to have fun.

[01:07:05] Cameron: And for a stoic person, look for opportunity to say, yes, sign up for games. Uh, go to snapshot, uh, Hopefully by the time we air this video, it’ll be ready for you. But go there and download the game and play ca figure. Get creative in how you play, exercise some mind stuff, and it will naturally create bonding moments, stories to share that you’ll be able to relive with your family or your friends for years to

[01:07:39] Kyle: Right.

[01:07:40] Cameron: So, one other story, Tina, right? She’s the one who convinces us to do fun things. She’s like, why don’t we go? Um, what, what is it? Uh, where you stand on a board and you paddle standing up.

[01:07:55] Kyle: Paddle. I’ve never done it, but I.

[01:07:58] Cameron: Yes. Yeah. So Tina’s like, Hey, do you and Sarah wanna go paddle boarding? And I’m like, I.

[01:08:04] Cameron: Yes. I don’t want to in, that’s my natural thing, but yes. Yes. And so we’d go on the nicest drive trying to find the place. We’re gonna go paddle boarding. That was fun. Then we go paddle boarding. And I am, I just had a head injury where I’d been practicing balancing without being on a board, holding a

[01:08:27] Kyle: right,

[01:08:28] Cameron: Right? I stand up and I’m, I’m like, as shaky as you can imagine, and you know, everyone else is doing this. And then I look over at my buddy Aaron, who’s going and I watch him do the most beautiful fall. Like all of a sudden he’s uh, he’s like looking like a champ, right? All of a sudden his feet are in the air, he lands on his back, on the board and then rolls off.

[01:08:53] Cameron: And I’m like, how did that happen? That’s so funny. Next thing I know, I’m in the water. That was fun. Would we have been able to do that if I hadn’t looked for the opportunity to say yes. No, invites fun. She invites everybody and encourages people to have fun. And if you find someone in life that does that for you, say yes, look for opportunities to say yes, because you’ll have far more adventures to rely on when real hardship and real tragedy, tragedy happens instead of this made up.

[01:09:28] Cameron: ’cause is doing paddleboard a challenge? Yes, doing paddle board’s a challenge, but if you can understand that when you fall on a paddleboard and you struggle to get up, it really doesn’t matter. Maybe, maybe when your kid breaks their back, the third kid breaks their back. Maybe you can have the reaction that my daughter Rachel had, which was to just start laughing because you recognize, you know what I.

[01:09:58] Cameron: This has just fallen on a paddleboard again, and that play that saying yes to made up adventures will help you win the real adventures of life. Hit you

[01:10:09] Kyle: You know, I, I, I think I like saying yes is huge, right? And I think that’s, I would suggest that most of the, maybe the little success I’ve had in life has been because I’ve just said yes, right? Or I’ve got my action taker t-shirt on right now because

[01:10:30] Cameron: Oh,

[01:10:31] Kyle: I, you know, I, I, I, I agree with you a hundred percent, right?

[01:10:37] Kyle: Just let’s do this. Let’s either you create it or go participate, right? My kids. They’re required to do things they don’t really like to do sometimes. Right. And we all are, especially as adults. And you know, we’ve got this attitude that, look, you bring the fun. If they say it’s not gonna be any fun, then you bring the fun, right?

[01:11:03] Cameron: Yeah.

[01:11:03] Kyle: of months ago, it’s probably been more than a couple months ago now, a friend of mine said, Hey, I struggle with, uh, I’ve had some knee injuries. And the older you get, the more injuries you get that you don’t even know how you got ’em. Right? was struggling with a shoulder that was giving me some problems, and a friend of mine said, Hey, have you ever tried taking an ice bath? And I thought, man, I hate cold water. That’s the worst, you know? And he said, well, if you can handle it for, you know, two minutes, if you can slide down in a bucket of ice for two minutes, I promise you it’ll change you, you know?

[01:11:44] Cameron: Yeah.

[01:11:45] Kyle: I thought. Yeah. And I thought, you know what? That yes. I said, you know what, yes.

[01:11:53] Kyle: I’m gonna try it. And so I thought,

[01:11:56] Cameron: Yeah.

[01:11:56] Kyle: there’s a couple ways I can do this. This is the leverage. You know, we talked about leverage a while back, right? How can I get the most out of this? How can I get the most

[01:12:04] Cameron: Get the most outta

[01:12:05] Kyle: how can I give the most? Well, I told my kids, I said, Hey, I’m gonna do this ice bath. You guys wanna come watch or do it with me?

[01:12:12] Kyle: They’re like, watch. Yes. And they knew it was gonna be a colossal failure. And I, and, and, and so I, you know, one Sunday afternoon had all the kids come over and I slid down into the ice bath and they, a couple of ’em videoed it. And they said, I made some noises. They had never heard come out of me. Okay? And one of my other sons got in and my daughter did two. It. And I do ’em, I probably do ’em once a week now because it, it does have a lot of anti-inflammatory. It, it helps me, it rejuvenates me. It makes me feel better. Yeah. I really enjoy ’em now. But that first time was a colossal mess. But I realized, you know, if I’m gonna do this, first of all, I, I would probably back out if they didn’t come right, because it sounds unappealing.

[01:13:10] Kyle: Or I would slide in,

[01:13:11] Cameron: it does. Sounds horrible.

[01:13:14] Kyle: in and then get out, you know? But if they show up, I tell ’em I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna do it. It’s the same.

[01:13:20] Cameron: You’re.

[01:13:22] Kyle: Right. That’s what it was for me saying yes and it’s gonna help me do it. And they’re probably gonna enjoy the lunacy that occurs. And they did. They enjoyed the lunacy.

[01:13:32] Kyle: Right. But we all ended up, I mean, probably four out of eight, uh, four out of all of us did it. And I have continued to do it. ’cause it, it has, it help, it helps me. I feel like it helps me. Right. But the idea that say yes to things, you know,

[01:13:52] Cameron: Mm-hmm.

[01:13:53] Kyle: think one of the things that can hold us back from saying yes to things sometimes is, is kind of fear of the unknown or, right.

[01:14:02] Kyle: Or it, it sounds like work. And maybe we’ll talk about hop up and hustle in a future episode.

[01:14:09] Cameron: Oh, let’s do, I love

[01:14:11] Kyle: ’cause that’s one of those things that I don’t care if it’s work. I, I, I’ve gotten to a point now where I, nothing’s more important than my family. Right. If I’m not willing to work for them, what am I doing? What am I even doing? Right? So why not make that a priority? You know, if you don’t, if you’re stoic, if you’re stoic individual and you think that sounds like a lot of work. You know, what really matters, you know, in your life, to you that is so much more important than your family, than creating. I read a scripture one time, and I’m gonna get this wrong, and it said, you know, we spend the most time with our, we spend the time with our treasures.

[01:14:54] Kyle: And I, I’m getting it wrong,

[01:14:55] Cameron: Mm-hmm.

[01:14:57] Kyle: right? But you know that you probably know the scripture, and if it’s on my phone, I could probably look it up. Maybe I should. Let me,

[01:15:05] Cameron: Where your heart is there, your treasure is also,

[01:15:07] Kyle: you, you got it right. But that, that really stuck with me because I thought, where should you, where are your treasures? What are your treasures in life? And that is actually where you, where we should be focusing our energy on our work, right? So here we go. I’ll give you the scripture and maybe you can pull it up. Um, what is it?

[01:15:36] Cameron: Matthew 6

[01:15:37] Kyle: Matthew 6 21, uh, Luke 1234. Luke 1234,

[01:15:42] Cameron: Okay,

[01:15:42] Kyle: uh, for where your treasure is there, will your heart be also right? And, and the whole point of, of think of all the things we’re talking about in connection with this, Cameron, is if we love our family, you know, I hear a lot of, one of the, one of the things that bothers me, okay, is when people say, I’d go to the moon in the back for my kids. Right? I, I hear this all the time. It annoys the crap outta me because many people won’t play a game with their kids. They’d go to the moon and your kids shut the crap up about going to the moon and back with your kids. Well, why don’t you spend some time with them? Stop with the go to the moon and don’t wear a t-shirt that says that crap.

[01:16:31] Kyle: Wear a t-shirt that says, I played a card game with my kid this week. Wear a t-shirt that says, I took my kids out for ice cream and we threw it at each other. Wear a t-shirt that says, you know, we took googly eyes and stuck them on all the faces at Walmart. Or wear those t-shirts because that is, is the connection saying you love your kids, saying you’d go to the moon and back is a bunch of crap to me. You won’t even.

[01:16:59] Cameron: Yeah. People would say, I’ll, I would die for my spouse, or I would die for my kids. Well, how about you live for them?

[01:17:07] Kyle: Take some, take some time and thought. And if you’re listening to this, you’re probably one of those people that would, is gonna thinks about this anyway. We’re probably preaching to the choir here. Right. And so it’s okay for me to say, quit singing that crap. You know what I wanna see, I wanna see you say, I took my kids and did this this week and it wasn’t easy and I didn’t wanna do it, but I did it and we had fun.

[01:17:30] Kyle: That’s I,

[01:17:34] Cameron: so when I, I went to my wife’s, uh, tenure year class reunion, and she met this gal, you know, she’s, I, it’s all of her friends she went to high school with, and I’m, you know, her trophy husband to quote you. And, uh, I’m sitting there and the gal is just bragging and just bragging about her kids. And it was obscene how, and it was just like, oh my goodness.

[01:18:01] Cameron: You know what? I don’t know if I can trust you anymore because. You know, if your kids were this great, you wouldn’t have to say it. It would just kind of be obvious, you know? That’s kind of what was going through my mind. And so I interrupted her and I felt bad later because it was, it was not the right call, but this is where my mind goes.

[01:18:21] Cameron: I actually said, oh, you know what? My oldest, she casts a shadow when the sun is shining. And I, I said it in the same way she did. She didn’t get that It was a joke. Yeah. Well, it was supposed to be funny because it was like, oh my goodness, your kids are amazing. My kid. You know? That’s right. Except that this time they weren’t right.

[01:18:48] Cameron: They, they were just 10, uh, nine years old at the time. So I’m all, my kid casts a shadow when the sun shines, and I thought it was funny. And she’s like, oh. Total

[01:19:02] Kyle: Total confusion,

[01:19:03] Cameron: And I was like, oh, shoot. And see, that is why I come off more stoic, because if I joke like that, that sarcasm, you know, here’s another example. I had a, a leader in our church. Um, I was just expressing how much I enjoy sarcasm from the youth. And the, the some you get into a youth group where they’re sarcastic and it’s fun, and you’re talking about the scriptures and you know, you ask what your favorite scripture is and they quote the shortest ones they can find.

[01:19:33] Cameron: Like, and my father dwells in a tent, or Jesus wept, or, you know, the real

[01:19:38] Kyle: Or the quote

[01:19:39] Cameron: And I just enjoy that because

[01:19:41] Kyle: the Good Book of Cornelius or something like that, you know, that’s.

[01:19:45] Cameron: yes, they, they use a Star Wars quote on accident, you know, but it’s not, uh, but anyway, and he’s like, he, he says, and you know, once again, My position at the time I was an executive secretary, and, uh, they, he’s all, well, you realize that, uh, sarcasm is the lowest form of Witt. And I just shot right back at him.

[01:20:12] Cameron: I was like, well, you realize he was being sarcastic and we didn’t get it, you know? I was like, ah. So you know what? I love this conversation and I want to cut it out early because I think we’ve hit on some good things. Is there any questions you want to answer before we we end? Any, anything that you’re like, oh, just one more thing.

[01:20:42] Kyle: You know, I don’t, I don’t think I would like to reiterate what you just, you said earlier though, I think that was, of all the things that came outta this conversation, the idea that you can have good sportsmanship in life because you’ve played right, or because you’ve teased or goofed or had playfulness in your life is so, so powerful, right?

[01:21:06] Kyle: There are people that walk around unhappy and it’s almost you, you wonder, you know, I’m, I’m I, I’m an amateur psychologist, you know, and I wonder, is it just an event today? Or is this person generally unhappy in life? You know, and if it’s generally unhappy in life, you wonder have they experienced something so bad that there’s no coming back? I mean, because everybody experiences tragedy, right? We all face it. Life is gonna beat the crap outta you. It’s gonna try,

[01:21:46] Cameron: Yeah.

[01:21:47] Kyle: you know, and I, and I think the idea that you can have good by, by playing games and by being playful and by seeing things in a, in a playful way, right? In a spirit of levity, in a lot of cases, you can develop a, a sportsmanship in life that can absolutely carry you through the trials and the tragedies, right?

[01:22:11] Kyle: If you don’t, if you don’t play and you don’t learn that you, it, there’s a, a, there’s a risk. The bitterness may be what you become. Right. And it’s, it’s really, there’s a, there’s a lot of it out there, right? And, and you see it around you and sometimes you even try to help ’em out of it, but some people don’t wanna be helped, right.

[01:22:37] Kyle: They don’t want to come out of it. But, and I think it all starts with, like you said, is learning sportsmanship through things that don’t matter so much, right? That are playful, that are silly, that are happy, that are joyous, that are, uh, facing small challenges like they are, right? If you’re driving home from work and you get a flat tire, you know, I’ve heard, I’ve heard people say, perfect, this is the perfect time to get a flat tire. And I’ve said to myself, you know what, this actually is the perfect time to get a flat tire. Nothing is pressing. You got time to pull over and fix it. Uh, this is a good time for things to happen, right? Sometimes it’s a good time for bad things to happen. That’s the, that’s the best time to handle it, you know, uh, you know, I’ve also heard people say, you know, with my luck, this is gonna go horribly wrong.

[01:23:26] Kyle: And I’m like, you gotta be kidding me, man. You, that’s a, it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy, right? I, I tell my kids, we got the greatest luck of all with our luck. Things are gonna go right. When things do go wrong, they go wrong. We handle them right. But with our luck,

[01:23:42] Cameron: Yep.

[01:23:42] Kyle: got, right? I mean, let’s, let’s counter blessings and, and find the joy in what we’re doing.

[01:23:48] Kyle: And it all comes back to what you said is, is finding connection with your kids through simple things, through playfulness and play, and letting them know that, that not everything is serious. Not everything is the end of the world, right? And, and,

[01:24:04] Cameron: most things aren’t I, I haven’t hit the end of the world where my wife tells me the job thing, you know, where it’s curse god

[01:24:15] Kyle: my favorite scriptures,

[01:24:18] Cameron: Yes, mine too. Because you know how bad that had to be, where she’s like, you know what I want? I want you gone out of mortality and I need you to curse God so that I don’t end up with you for eternity either. So in the mortality and finish it for eternity. Curse God and die. That’s how I picture it. Right.

[01:24:39] Cameron: She’s just so frustrated with her husband who’s going through everything boils and sitting on an ash

[01:24:45] Kyle: everything, everything goes wrong. Everything goes wrong. Yeah. And she’s, she’s as supportive as she can be in that statement. You know what I’m saying? You know what? All right. Job. I think the best course of action right here is to curse God and die.

[01:25:05] Cameron: Yeah. It’s the best I got. That’s all I got. That’s all that’s left. You’ve tried the stoicism,

[01:25:10] Kyle: if you curse God and die, I can start over somewhere over here. ’cause you are a bad situation, bro. You’re a co I don’t know what else to tell you. You know, what did you, what’s going on over there? I gotta start over, over here. Job.

[01:25:26] Cameron: Yeah. Oh my goodness. It’s so wrong and

[01:25:28] Kyle: It’s so great though. I mean, you know, if you, because it is right? No, again, we’re all gonna go through it, right? We’re all gonna go through it. How do we help each other? How do we teach our kids? How do we connect with other individuals? You and I have faced stuff where we’ve gone to each other, right? You face stuff where you’ve, you’ve come to me and we’ve talked about stuff, right?

[01:25:52] Kyle: And I’ve come to you and we’ve talked stuff, and I’ve come to you with tears in my eyes, you know? And, and my connection with you has been right. We, we we’re here to save each other, to help each other. Right. And a lot of that is just having a connect, a kind of connection where we can talk and creating,

[01:26:12] Cameron: And I think that’s probably a key piece right there. I was able to come to you when I was dealing with the mental health challenges of my wife, which wa it was the health issues combined with the mental health issues. What? I was overwhelmed and because I had a connection with you through play and through playfulness.

[01:26:35] Cameron: Then when life threw me a curve ball, you know that. It’s so interesting how all of our sayings about dealing with adversity and challenges in life come from sports and play. But when I got that, I could go to you and have a serious conversation where I knew it wasn’t gonna destroy me as a person. It wasn’t gonna get worse because I addressed it and talked about it.

[01:27:01] Cameron: You had insights that were very helpful at the time, but also then the next time we got together, it wasn’t. Oh boy, how’s it going? It was, Hey, neither regions, you know, it, whatever it was, it was play and joyful. So dealing with life, yeah. It stinks sometimes to have things go wrong, but, and you know what I realized for the past six months before I got into this car accident, I was not joyful.

[01:27:37] Cameron: I was kind of a sour face, you know, I had a resting sour face and it was just like, people would be like, how’s it going? And I’m like, You don’t wanna know, you know? And then I was like, what’s up with that? That’s not happy. That’s not joy. And if we’re, if we’re supposed to be here in mortality to discover how to be joyful, and if you think about it, do you want to be around people who are poor sports?

[01:28:04] Cameron: Or do you wanna be around people who are good sports and can give you a tip of the hat when you do something excellent and you know, recognize that, yeah, that didn’t go well otherwise that’s what you want. You wanna be around other people who are good sportsmen in life as well. So you should be that person.

[01:28:22] Cameron: Attract people, have joy and recognize adversity, whether it’s made up through play and games, Snapchat,, or if it’s just the fact that life’s hitting you. They’re all opportunities to create memories and form new connections and strengthen the connections you already have. Don’t let the tragedy of life or the bad turned of events and gameplay.

[01:28:46] Cameron: Ruin relationships that’s on you if you do so

[01:28:51] Kyle: Yeah. Let me, you just, you just prompted a thought for me and I, I’ll close What I have to say on this is I’ve learned through facing some pretty heavy stuff. That for me, when I’m frustrated or angry or discouraged when I’m in those bitter states, it’s exhausting it. You are worn out, you are beat up, you are torn down.

[01:29:17] Kyle: Those emotions, bring with them exhaustion. There’s no way to be buoyant in those situations right now. You can face the same situation and if you face it in a spirit of love and you say, you know what? I faced some tough stuff before. I’ll face this too. I, you know, I’m gonna endure. Well, it’s uplifting, not, you can face those things and it’s not exhausting.

[01:29:47] Kyle: You have energy. It create it almost, it almost for me, you know, my son is going through my more severe son on the spectrum, has been going through something for a while now, and. I’m energized, right? Because I’m approaching it. And even if he goes through it, until I die, right? I don’t care. I’m gonna go through it with this approach.

[01:30:14] Kyle: Face it in the spirit of love. Try to do what’s right and try to find the joy in it. Not just find the joy in it, but, but understand it’s helping me grow and helping him grow, right? And what it does is it gives me facing the same battles and being frustrated and overwhelmed and angry. It, it exhausts you.

[01:30:33] Kyle: But when you face those battles in the spirit of love and you say, you know what? This is part of the deal, right? I’m gonna have a great story on the other side of life. This will be a great

[01:30:44] Cameron: Yep.

[01:30:45] Kyle: When you look at it with that approach, then it gives you energy, right? And energy is what we need.

[01:30:51] Kyle: Connection and energy is what we need to survive, right? It it, people see that in us, right? And that’s

[01:30:58] Cameron: Yeah, agreed.

[01:31:00] Kyle: and so I, I, I think great conversation I’ve learned, I’ve always been curious about stoicism ’cause I’m a goofball, but I know they have, you know, everybody has that ability to connect.

[01:31:11] Kyle: It’s just hard for me to imagine. My connection is always on a goofy level, at least initially, right?

[01:31:18] Cameron: Sure.

[01:31:19] Kyle: and I can usually draw if there is any goofy in you, I’ll kind of find it eventually. But

[01:31:26] Cameron: Yeah, it’s great. I.

[01:31:28] Kyle: to me. I know there’s different personality types and hopefully, again, a disclaimer to this whole thing. If our dark humor or some of the things we’ve said have offended you, please don’t, please understand this whole thing is done in a spirit of love. We’re we really wanna be helpful. We’re not trying to offend or

[01:31:47] Cameron: Yeah,

[01:31:48] Kyle: We have our own types of humor. And if those are offensive to you, please forgive us.

[01:31:51] Kyle: That’s not our intention at all. So,

[01:31:55] Cameron: we’ll get better.

[01:31:57] Kyle: No, probably not.

[01:31:58] Cameron: Yeah. Well, yeah. Maybe not. All right. It’s worth it. We’ll talk to you later.

[01:32:10] Kyle: Have a great, have a great afternoon and we’ll see you next time.

[01:32:15] Cameron: See ya.

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