In this Daddy Daughter Discussions, Mary asks her Dad about dating and developing relationships.
3Ds Daddy Daughter Discussions How do you know?
[00:00:00] Cameron Watson: Hey Mary, how’s it going?
[00:00:01] Mary Watson: Pretty good. Good. I’ve had a good
[00:00:03] Cameron Watson: day so far. Excellent. Now, you have a question for me. Tell me the background of where this question came from and then let’s just dive in.
[00:00:12] Mary Watson: Okay, so I have been, I’m a college student, I’m 22, and I would like to find somebody to settle down with and get married to. And I recognize that’s impossible if I’m not willing to go on dates with people, I’m not just gonna. meet my prince and fall in love in one day. And so I’ve made a personal goal to go on as many dates as I can.
And this past week I went on three dates with three different guys, and I’ve got two dates planned for this week. But as I’m going on these dates, I Get this feeling in my stomach. That’s not good. And I’ve been on dates where I’ve been attracted to the other person and my stomach did not hurt. I, I cannot tell if it’s the spirit saying this is not the person or if I’m just experiencing anxiety because I, out of the three dates I went on last week, I enjoyed one of them more than the other two.
They were all very kind young men. Very sweet and there was one that asked me on a second date, and I said sure, and then he texted me to plan this second date for next week, and I want to say no, because it doesn’t make me feel good, and so I’m just having a lot of conflict with determining how to, maybe I need to change my perspective, or maybe I need to find a different way to Do things.
I don’t know. So I want to hear your thoughts.
[00:01:52] Cameron Watson: That is a loaded question. There are so many, there are so many different things so many different principles that are, can be used when talking about finding people to date, continuing to date, and when to stop continuing to date. Also there’s things like, it’s called a rut, right?
People get caught In a rut all the time, because they just date the same person over and over again. And it’s not progressing towards what they’re trying to progress towards. So that’s, this is really real stuff here. Can I ask you a couple of questions?
Yeah.
The, when you want to say no, is there a primary reason and then a bunch of secondary reasons, or is it just a bunch of secondary reasons that add up to a primary reason?
Does that make sense?
For example, if the fella didn’t maintain the standards that you expect the fella to maintain. Let’s say he was a potty mouth and he was constantly swearing. Would you go out with him again? Probably not. Okay. So that would be like a primary reason. Okay. Secondary reasons are secondary reasons are like
[00:03:05] Mary Watson: there was awkward silence.
[00:03:07] Cameron Watson: Awkward silence, no clicking, misunderstandings repeatedly misaligned as far as physical contact goes, misaligned as far as humor, misaligned, a lot of misalignments.
[00:03:20] Mary Watson: Yes for me, primarily secondary reasons.
[00:03:24] Cameron Watson: Okay.
There’s a YouTube video with by Studio C called Deal Breaker. Have you seen that? Yes. Okay. Very entertaining. Because one of them they interrupted the person saying, That’s not a deal breaker. You should marry him. And I think that might be what you’re worried about is, are you ending something prematurely that could turn into something because it’s just not clicking?
Is that, could that be part of the issue?
[00:03:54] Mary Watson: I think so, yes. I think Also with that, because a lot of these are first dates, they’re not, there’s not much to end if that makes sense. And I want to end it before I even go on the date. In fact, I found myself saying a little prayer that maybe he wouldn’t show up for my date on Friday.
And and I’ve communicated with them oftentimes they’ll get my number and we’ll text a little bit back and forth and then they ask me out and,
and I’ve decided before I go, That I don’t want to marry them. Okay.
[00:04:30] Cameron Watson: I think that’s probably wise that you shouldn’t get married before your first date.
[00:04:34] Mary Watson: Yes but I don’t see it going anywhere. I guess is a better way to put it. I don’t see the point in going on the date if I don’t feel like it will
[00:04:42] Cameron Watson: progress.
Let’s talk about that one because there’s a tradition. And it might only be in the Jewish culture, but I love the tradition. And that is if it’s not an absolute no, you keep seeing where it goes. And that is because the fallacy the thing that people think in their mind is that dating is easy and marriage is bliss.
And neither one of those things are true. It’s wonderful. Both can be fun and exciting and wonderful. But when you’re dating. You’re discovering things about other people, but more importantly, you’re discovering things about yourself in interacting with other people. And there’s you have relatives who went on a first date and then the second date was a year later and they got married.
You might say that first date didn’t have any indications that they were gonna end up together. And I would say that most first dates are not indications of eternity. They’re not indication of lifelong commitment. They’re indications of next week, next month. And that’s what it’s indicating.
And if you’re, if you didn’t have an enjoyable time at all, then perhaps You go, you know what, I’m going to give it a break for a couple months and maybe that’s your answer to them. So I recognize part of the thing that you’re trying to balance is also you don’t want to reject the fella. You’re nice and you’re kind to people.
If someone asks you, this is a one way you could handle it. If you realize that you did not have a great time on the date and they’re excited about a second date and you don’t want to, you don’t want to miscommunicate to them. That you also had the same experience they had. And so you could say, Could we wait a month or two before we go on another date?
And you give it time. That’s a, that’s not a total rejection. You’re also not cutting things off completely. But you also recognize that experience is not worth another one of those experiences. in a short period of time when you could be having another new experience that might go better with someone else.
The opportunity cost of dating one person over again is that you can’t date someone else. Now, I happen to have dated a ton when I returned home from serving a mission. I I averaged, seven dates a week for a while there. And that meant that some weeks when I only dated three or four times, other weeks I dated ten.
And it was not unusual for me to go from one date to another date. And I would plan a lunch date, and then two evening and night dates. I’d go on a date during lunch with a gal, then I’d go to an early evening date, and then I would go to a later night date with someone. And I didn’t date a lot of those gals the second time.
But, if they had asked me, I probably would have. Just because I would have felt like I needed to like out of obligation because I’m nice
So did I lose you Mary?
[00:08:09] Mary Watson: No, I think that’s a similar thing that I experienced I don’t enjoy rejecting people and I feel guilty for the potential of leading them on. However, I don’t think I’m leading them on. I think I’m genuinely trying to figure out where I’m at. But I don’t want it to look that way when I do make my decision.
And when I do say, I don’t, I don’t see this going anywhere.
Thank you. Being, being grateful for them taking me out and having fun with me and being willing to get to know me and let me get to know them. It could be that there is a certain culture here at the school, people my age and dating, that I hear lots of young men make general statements about girls doing them dirty and breaking their hearts and I don’t want to be a heartbreaker and I don’t want to be talked about that way because I want to be a nice person.
[00:09:07] Cameron Watson: Sure. That. Those young men who talk like that are the very young men you want to avoid dating. And it’s a maturity thing, it’s who’s responsible for the situation. And if they’re saying that someone did them dirty. Now, your mom is famous for saying yes to every date because she was taught you go out and you eat their food.
You say yes for the meal, that’s why you go on dates, right? Yeah. And she couldn’t figure out why we kept going out. From her perspective, if she was in your situation, she would not have gone out with me again. Let alone, four or five times. Have you created a list of attributes that you find attractive yet?
I have is it growing, but okay, good. It should still grow.
[00:10:04] Mary Watson: I don’t know if it’s numbered in order from a, like an importance, but it’s listed.
[00:10:11] Cameron Watson: Great. Go ahead and number it at some point and they, you don’t have to do. You don’t have to rate them in priority and prioritized. And remember, these are not the things that are deal breakers.
Okay. These are things that these are qualities or attributes that you recognize you find attractive. And the reason I recommend numbering it because then after a date, when you’re unsure about going out with them again, you can pull out your list. And you can just go down it and say, Oh, number 17 he’s wonderful in number 17 and Oh, he’s.
He’s, he opens my door, I find that attractive, or, oh, he listens well, I find that attractive. All of the things that he, you find attractive, you’ll be able to go through the list, and that can help overcome some of the other things that get in the way. Of moving forward and getting to know someone in a deeper, more intimate environment over time or through shared experience.
It doesn’t even have to be intimate. It can just be through shared experience. And a lot of times we’ll end the shared experience with someone because it didn’t feel what we want it to feel like. But I’m telling you that feeling that you want it to feel like that comes. After many hours and many things of shared experience, it doesn’t start off that way.
And if it does start off that way, then the question is this a flash in the pan? Do you know where that, do you understand that statement flash in the pan?
[00:11:54] Mary Watson: Makes me think of experiences where I have had, a flash in the pan, I think, where I was very attracted to the guy, and we went on a few dates, and it seemed to be going well, and then there was that realization of what am I doing and, but I didn’t feel, I didn’t have the feelings of like illness, And I don’t know, I feel like maybe I’m not ready for a relationship, but that’s what I want.
I want to be in a relationship, and I don’t know, I feel like maybe I’m Not prepared because I want a relationship because I feel like it’s what I should be doing and less of that’s what I Want to be doing if that makes sense and I did listen to you your podcast with Kyle which was super Cool. And there were a lot of great insights about living in the present and recognizing that this isn’t going to this is just today, this is just this hour that you’re spending with the person.
It’s not, the rest of the future. It’s a moment. And so seeing it that way, but still experiencing that feeling and just wondering, what can I do to help with that?
[00:13:13] Cameron Watson: So you’re, you feel almost obligated. To seek a relationship that is more meaningful than first, second, third dates. Is that what you’re saying?
Okay.
[00:13:25] Mary Watson: Or even just seek a relationship period, because I.
If I didn’t, if I hadn’t set this goal for myself, there would be a lot of no’s to a lot of the dates I get asked on, and so I’ve been trying to say yes more.
[00:13:40] Cameron Watson: Okay, and that’s probably healthy. What what was the goal again?
[00:13:44] Mary Watson: That I shared at the very beginning of this? To find someone that I want to be with. Okay,
[00:13:52] Cameron Watson: and do you have a date?
[00:13:54] Mary Watson: Do I have a
[00:13:55] Cameron Watson: not, sorry. Do you have a month? Year of when you want this to occur, because a goal typically, the difference between a goal and a wish is
measurable.
Towards, and for example, when I came home December of 1996 I wrote a goal that I wanted to be engaged by the time December, 1990.
Seven rolled around, I wanted to be engaged and I recognized that if I didn’t hit that was okay, but it was going to, by having that goal, it was going to force me to do some things that were uncomfortable for me because I had just spent two years avoiding being alone, talking to or socializing with women.
And so I needed something to help me overcome that. And I decided I was going to do that. And then it took another month feeling awkward and not doing anything for me to finally go, you know what I got, I have to get back into the swing of things or I’m not going to hit my goal. If I’m going to hit my goal, I have to date and I might have to, I want to be able to say that I dated enough that I made I knew enough about myself that I was ready for myself to get married.
And it honestly, Mary, it was less about who I was going to marry and more about me and what I was ready for. And so I started dating a lot and that’s why I went on so many first dates. And luckily your mom was told to, say yes to dates and go eat their food. And I know that sounds horrible, but that I think that’s how she describes it.
So anyway, so do you have a date in mind or is this a generalized, I want to be more, I want to, is it about getting into the relationship or creating opportunities so that you could potentially be in a relationship?
[00:16:01] Mary Watson: Yeah, I think it’s more about creating opportunities and I could set a date, but the date that I could see myself setting is like five years because the idea makes me nervous, but I want the opportunities because there are such wonderful people out there and I’ve met many of them and I know that they’re, there’s somebody that It’s there that I want to be with and there’s probably multiple people out there that I would be very happy with and I want opportunities to find those people.
[00:16:36] Cameron Watson: So this is where people are going to totally disagree with me. And
and this is where it’s where the love aspect of relationships. I think this is where I tell people they need to get married in spite of being in love. And this is where it gets really weird, but this is where, this is how lifelong loyal companionship, this is where it starts is with the acknowledgement that it actually probably doesn’t matter who you marry as long as they have a baseline of certain attributes
and everything on top of that is bonus.
Do you know what the baseline attributes that I believe in? It throws a lot of people off when they hear it.
Redhead,
[00:17:26] Mary Watson: plays the cello. Those
[00:17:28] Cameron Watson: are all things on my list, for sure.
[00:17:31] Mary Watson: That’s fun. I could imagine having a testimony of Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father.
[00:17:38] Cameron Watson: Yeah, that’s an important bonus. Not one of the key.
Really? That’s required. Oh,
[00:17:45] Mary Watson: I know one of your baselines. Okay.
[00:17:47] Cameron Watson: Kind. Yes. They must be kind, and that does not mean polite. They need to be kind. The other one, they need to be loyal. And with those two principles, everything else can improve and get better over time. If they’re going to be loyal, and they’re going to be kind, while you both mature, and the, there’s a lot that’s inferred in there, right?
Kindness involves allowing someone else to be Who they are today with a hope that they’re going to be more tomorrow. And I know that people are like, that’s not what kindness means. I know this is what it is to me. Okay. And loyal is that even if it takes years for me to become the person that I’m striving to become, they’re going to stick with me through the thick and the thin and the, all the typical movie wedding vows, sickness and health.
Poverty and wealth, all of those things, if they’re loyal to you, then all the other things can be worked out over time. And I also, in there, I include gaining a testimony of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. I, myself, have had times where I believed in God, but I, you wouldn’t have been able to tell that by my actions.
And so for, if your mom hadn’t been loyal to me, this was by the way, when you were born and she would be, in fact, today, when I talk about being inactive or disengaged from doing religious things or spiritual things, she goes, Oh, you were to, you were just working a lot. She still defends me. She is so loyal, but I went, I was here and then I dipped down and then.
Over time, I worked my way back, and I’m a much better person now than I was back then. But it was not one of the requirements that I put, that I used to measure whether or not the relationship is going to be solid and last. Does it help? Yes. But is it required? Would I, let me ask you this, Mary.
Would you rather have someone who’s loyal to you? And is struggling with their relationship with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ? Or would you like someone who knew their relationship with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and was not loyal to you?
[00:20:22] Mary Watson: I’d much rather have somebody who was loyal to me.
[00:20:26] Cameron Watson: Yeah. And then, and you can do that with all of them. Would you rather have someone who was kind to you? Or would you rather have someone who knew exactly
[00:20:37] Mary Watson: How to be kind but wasn’t?
[00:20:39] Cameron Watson: Yeah. Or who was financially sound? But was not kind someone who was eloquent, but was mean. So there’s a lot there.
[00:20:50] Mary Watson: And you call those baseline
[00:20:52] Cameron Watson: attributes?
Yeah.
And you should come up with your what you’re looking for and what would make it an out for you.
So what are some of the things that you have absolutes about?
[00:21:05] Mary Watson: I think kindness is a huge one for me. And it’s one that I notice in, that’s one that I look for naturally when I meet new people, whether they’re, Men or women or old people or young people. It’s just one that I look for and I admire it a lot and I like the loyalty and the example you gave in asking me, would I rather have someone who was loyal, who was struggling with their relationship with God, or would I rather have someone who was I knew their relationship with God, but it was unloyal.
I had much loyalty seems like a really good one to be on there. I’d have to think about some other ones because the ones that come to mind for me, I think honesty could be covered by loyalty, but honesty is huge for me.
[00:21:55] Cameron Watson: And that’s a tough one. Honesty has a lot. So you have honesty that includes.
So where, and is it, where does it fall and where do, if they had promised to keep a confidence from someone else before you were dating them and you ask them a question where do you want them to, land? Yeah. There’s a lot of gray, interesting areas about honesty. And then my question is, they are honest while you’re dating. Once you’re married, it doesn’t matter. Now you have to work with the person you married. Yeah. And that can be very difficult. So unless you said, okay, everything else is okay. And I’ve had this discussion with your mom and she thinks it’s a horrible discussion to have, my weird brain is works this way.
I, I talked to her, I was like divorce is not an option for me except for one thing. And that’s if you were abusing the kids and the only way I could legally protect the kids is to divorce you and get custody, then that’s what I would do. But infidelity on your end financial ruin on your end it doesn’t matter.
Whatever you do, we’re in this till the end. And there is no end. Get used to that, right? Mental health issues doesn’t matter. I was I told her where the line was and she knew. So she could lie to me she doesn’t I hope, I’m pretty sure. But all of those things now we’re married they’re all part of this union between us and the Lord.
It’s a three way triangle. And the closer we get to God individually, the closer together we get, it’s a neat way to look at things. So now for dating you, once you discover what those baseline attributes are that are required for you. And then you have the things that you find attractive.
It’s just all about finding someone who has those baselines, and then identifying the other attributes that are great and bonus. In someone who also is willing to progress with you
and that takes a lot of dates sometimes. It does.
[00:24:27] Mary Watson: Yeah I think that’s safe to say. So then
you mentioned, have we talked much about attraction? Is attraction a variable to you in those baseline, baselines? I would love to be attracted to my
[00:24:43] Cameron Watson: person. Yeah. When I was dating if it didn’t occur to me to ask them out, I didn’t. But if it occurred to me, I did. And the question came up one time.
Someone asked me, Hey, would you ever, so I’ll tell this story. I was in, I was serving in Philadelphia in this area called Doylestown, beautiful area. I loved it. And there was a couple there and the wife didn’t have a filter. So she would do things that were socially not appropriate. And the husband I witnessed one of the things that she did.
And the husband saw the, the embarrassment on my face and he asked if he could talk to me and I was like, yeah, and so he pulled me and my companion into his living room and said, look, my wife, when we were dating she was diagnosed with a brain tumor and when they removed it, it removed her inhibitions and When sometimes she does things that are, it’s quite embarrassing, but she is innocent as a child would be.
And she is this was, this is not the woman that I was engaged to. And I was like, Wait, she had the brain tumor before you were married? And he’s yeah in my mind, I wanted to say, and you still married her, but he explained it. He knew what I was getting at. And he said when she’s resurrected, I’ll have the woman I loved back.
And right now I can get through anything. And they had been married by this time, probably 20, 30 years. They had been married forever and she just had this brain issue where she didn’t have any inhibitions. And so if her bra wasn’t seated right, she would just lift her blouse up and adjust things.
Didn’t occur to her what was going on. And anyway, he said, yeah, there’s all sorts of things that make our relationship unique. So then later my companion and I talked about it and said, hey, would you have married someone with that severe of a disability? And I came to the conclusion that, yeah I absolutely would if I was going to be able to hold my covenant and keep myself loyal to her and be kind to her for a lifetime, because it’s actually, and this is where I.
I make a statement, it’s less about the other person and it’s more about you and I we look at some of our, you look at some of your relatives and Ruth and Matt happily married now for who knows how long, and she deals with his traumatic brain injury that he got when he was a teenager.
Just awesome. What an amazing example of love and kindness and loyalty. Part that is hard is the attraction. Is it there and does it need to be there? And I would say that when you’re dating there should be something. That’s why you have the list and you go through the list to help remind you those things that you find attractive and so you can compare that list to the person that you just went on a date with that you didn’t have the warm fuzzy for but you Can say oh, but he has this attribute that I find attractive.
That’s what that list is for and when I pulled out the list 157 things your mom had all but two of them.
That was astounding to me.
I so Attraction is part of it. However, you’re not gonna always be attracted to your spouse after marriage so it can’t be the most important thing and there has to be other things to get you over those times when he might be 385 pounds like I was And out of shape. I w I was molding into whatever shape of the container I was in, right?
There wasn’t, I would fill the bathtub and then turn on the water. It, I was a big fella and I was not, your mom says I was attractive. But it was less emphasized. Attraction ebbs and flows. It’s a chemical reaction. Libido is another thing that people think that has to be there. That’s secondary.
Because it’s not always going to be there. You’re going to get old, you’re going to age out someday. Does that mean that you decide to not be married anymore? I guess they have drugs now that help, but at some point. Libido isn’t what drives you.
[00:29:31] Mary Watson: I do I do really like the idea of numbering those qualities and, finishing a date and matching them up to the individual. I think that will really help with my decision making on going on future dates with them and I think I’ll probably more often than not actually continue going on dates with them because as you were bringing that up I went back to the date with the guy that I said I’d go on a second date with Who I didn’t want to go out with and he has some qualities that I am attracted to and I may not be attracted to him completely but he does have qualities And that I can start to see, more about him as I get to know him
[00:30:19] Cameron Watson: and yeah.
And remember, it’s completely appropriate to let time go by one mistake. One mistake people make when they’re dating is they go on one date. One guy. One person was like, that was wonderful, and the other person is like, that was horrible. And the wonderful person wants to repeat the experience, because it was wonderful for them.
The other person doesn’t ever want to do that again. And if you would just give it some time, the things that were awkward fade quicker than the things that were pleasurable. The bad stuff, it sticks around for almost ever. But the just inconvenient stuff fades with time. So it is for their benefit, if it was not, if it was just like a lulz date, to say, Can we wait a month?
Let’s, yeah, let’s go out again, but do you mind if we wait a month? And you can even use me as an excuse, you can say I was talking to my dad and he has suggested that I wait a month. What is he going to do if he responds poorly? Ah, deal breaker. Good. You know for sure that you shouldn’t go out with him again, right?
If he responds positively and then follows up, okay, maybe there’s something there, right? Because for him, if it was wonderful, is it a flash in the pan or is it a, is it steady? Yeah. And is it going to be loyal when time goes by? So there’s some real power in when someone wants to date you again and you’re not into it, to just having them hold and wait.
And it doesn’t have to be very long. With the way that college works, don’t say next semester because that, that’s just, that’ll never happen, right? But yeah, you can say in three weeks, say, yeah, let’s go out again in a couple of weeks or three weeks or my dad recommends this say, Oh yeah, that’d be fun.
It’s see, it’s almost February. Let’s go out towards the end of February and just push the time out. Then he, his confidence is still there. He’s confused, but he wasn’t rejected. And who knows, maybe he’ll find someone else in that time. And not ever ask you out.
[00:32:44] Mary Watson: Yeah, and so with that, do I wait for them to ask me out when that time is over?
If you
[00:32:50] Cameron Watson: don’t want to go out with them for yourself, then yes. You just say, yeah, ask me out at the end of next month. Towards the end of next month. That’d be great.
[00:32:59] Mary Watson: I like that strategy.
[00:33:00] Cameron Watson: Yeah, it’s a fun tactic.
[00:33:03] Mary Watson: It’s good, especially I it is interesting because I noticed that when I do get asked out on second or third dates, it’s two days later.
And I like the idea of having time to process and I don’t know, just time in between. For me, it relieves a lot of stress to not have it, coming up so
[00:33:23] Cameron Watson: soon. And yes. So the, we talked about honesty is so important to you. I wonder if part of the reason you feel so,
with such a stupor to go out with someone so quickly again is in your mind, going out with someone so quickly again is telling them that you enjoyed yourself and you are pursuing something greater than what they, you currently have. And that is a lie.
And so you feel yucky about it because honesty is so important to you. You don’t want to, you don’t want to lie to somebody even by action or, omission of saying, Hey, this isn’t going anywhere. And then on the other side, you’re probably just battling your kindness as well, where you’re like, but I need to be kind.
And being kind would be to go out with them again. So say yes to both. Put a some time in there so that you’re not miscommunicating to them by having the time go by You’re not saying this is the best thing ever and you’re allowing things to happen You’re allowing yourself to go on more first dates, which if they ask you can say my dad suggested that in situations like this I Wait a month before going out the second time and there’s a lot of reasons for that I’m not gonna go into it With you, right?
That’s the phrase.
[00:34:57] Mary Watson: That’s the magic phrase. That is right. I’ll spare the details.
[00:35:02] Cameron Watson: That’s right. Yadda. It’s the Seinfeld one. But ask me again next month. And thank you. And be polite and be grateful because A fella who’s willing to ask a gal out nowadays, that, that’s getting rare.
I don’t know what is wrong. Anyway. Okay. Any other questions?
[00:35:21] Mary Watson: I don’t think so. I think
For the time being, my questions have been answered and I think you’ve given me some good ideas and tools to use moving forward that will definitely help with my predicament.
[00:35:36] Cameron Watson: Awesome.